Hey Everybody! I am so proud of you guys! Your discussions have been tremendous. I am especially happy that so many of you have jumped in with us late and gone back to the very beginning, signed in, and added your answers to the previous weeks of our book discussion. Way to go! As we moderate, we give the same attention to the comments on the older posts as the ones that are up-to-date. I promise you that community and active discussion will make your journey far more meaningful and hold you infinitely more accountable.
Ok, we’re about to get to a part of the book that I found highly interesting in research. The next several chapters involve the insights from the men’s survey and I bet a few of their comments will pop your eyes open, too. In the mix of what we have ahead, we’re going to be focusing on men-related insecurities then soon after that (in coming chapters) we’ll focus specifically on women-related insecurities. Each of us has a tendency to be less secure around one gender than the other and, according to the survey of over 900 of you, we’re almost evenly divided between the two. I pray we’re going to gain insight into some gender-related insecurities and stumble upon some much needed freedom. I really want you to read the portions about the men even if you don’t have a mate or a specific man in your life. If we have resistant, resentful hearts toward men, we can’t just avoid them altogether. They comprise the other half of our population so it really is imperative in our pursuit of wholeness that we get a grip.
Your assignment for this week is to read CHAPTERS 10 AND 11 and answer the following question:
1. Based on Chapter 10, in all truthfulness, has your historical tendency been to view men (generally speaking) as gods? Or devils?
2. Based on Chapter 10 and your own day-to-day observances, what differences do you see between men’s insecurities and women’s?
3. On p.208 in Chapter 11, I suggest that women who struggle with insecurity tend to be particularly taken with 2 divine attributes: omnipotence and omniscience. Did either of these resonate with you? If so, how?
We are liable to have some LIVELY conversation this week! I can’t wait to see it happen! Just one little thing I want to throw out there: some of you may have some pretty big hang-ups with men because you have a background of abuse like I do. If it plays heavily into one of your answers, by all means, share what pertains but I’ve learned along the way that it’s best to stop short of graphic descriptions. Most people have a hard time knowing what to do with those kinds of mental images. I’ve told every graphic detail in counseling situations but, publically, I try to stay general. It’s just too much for most listeners and readers. They have compassion but they just don’t have the answers. We know Who does.
Go for it, Girls! I’m so honored to take this journey with you.
Kitty 
DId you hear the song played on tonight's episode of The Biggest Loser? A powerful song about insecurities…
What are you waiting for?
What do you have to lose?
Your insecurities
They try to hold to you
You know you're made for more
So don't be afraid to move
Your faith is all it takes
And you can walk on the water too.
CLick here to hear the song-
http://www.examiner.com/x-660-Weight-Loss-Examiner~y2010m3d23-Biggest-Loser-season-9-homecoming-song-video-and-lyrics
Oh, I so resonate with "omniscience". My hurts have pushed me to find out what is going on so that I could try to figure out "why" people have left the church, said hurtful things, taken their hurts out on my husband etc. See there must be a "why" and certainly God wants me to understand it so that we could continue serving Him without self-combusting – right????
More often than not – God has been asking me 2 questions –
1. Do you trust me?
2. If you trust me, will you obey me?
I need to GIVE IT UP – when it comes to trying to be omniscient. God will lead me to what I need to know when I need to know it – If I trust Him, I will obey Him!
Michelle
42
married – very happily to the most amazing man and fabulously gifted pastor/teacher 🙂
1.Honestly, I’ve always looked at men as equals. I thank God it’s not one of the issues I’ve had to struggle with.
2.I believe women’s insecurities are based on a circumstance or on unhealthy relationship(s) (haven’t I read a book about this recently?). Men’s insecurities seem to be based on not who they are but what they do, and how successful they are perceived. Our company is 90% men and they could care less what others think about them (their attire speaks loud and clear), but they sure care about their accomplishment. What is on the title of their business cards means everything to them.
3.Omnipotence resonated with me. Fortunately, God had showed me long ago that He is God and I am not. He loves those I love more than I ever could. He has a plan for them that is based on His knowledge – not my own. He wants me to trust Him to do His work in them.
Through Chapter 11 I learned incredible truths about Omniscience that I wish I would have learned 25 years ago. It would have saved me much heartache and the comparison that “I” placed myself under. I felt as if I would never compare or live up to other women my husband was involved with before me. I asked, he was truthful, and I have never forgotten. I need Jesus to paint over the walls of my mind a thick coat of white paint. I had never thought to ask Him to do so, until now.
I can hear Him opening up the paint can and I’m looking forward to His wonderful work!
Traci, 40's, Married – Corona, CA
Oh, did I ever have a HUGE revelation of seeing "men walking like trees." After I cried so much I almost drown, I asked Jesus to touch my eyes (and emotions and mind) the SECOND time so I can get a clear picture of men in my mind. OH WHY DIDN"T I KNOW THIS SOONER!!!! Distorted eyesight! Oh, I see it so clearly now. Now if I can just keep the pendulum from swinging the other way and see men for WHO they are and not highly exalted OR debased! And omniscient and omnipresent….OMG…I think of this everyday and still trying to COME AWAY from that! Thank you, Beth. These TWO things were the most life-changing points in the book for me personally.
Kitty
55
Separated
1) Neither.
2) There are a couple differences I see between men & their insecurities and women & our insecurities: First in men being culturally-conditioned to not express/be willing to express insecurity or uncertainties without perceived loss of his maleness or emotionally felt-strength of his manhood. Second, a lack of male-initiated training/modeling/upbringing/mentoring in the area of learning to be at "peace" with/in acceptance of, or learning to relate to(on a reasonably comfortable level) with uncertainty or insecurity coming and going in life like the ebb & flow of the ocean's waves.
IMO, women are better able to realize & acclimate to the necessity of overall situational flexibility more often as well as realizing the necessity of letting a certain amount of uncertainty & insecurity come & go in our lives without internalizing & hurting ourselves.
3)Overall, I haven't leaned towards either attribute, however, the exceptions my two marriages because in my efforts to work towards keeping both marriages together, I put up with alot of things I shouldn't have and accepted mis-treatment & abuse that God never ordained for any of His children to put up with –I learned thru time & prayer that the root was one learned in childhood: "PEACE AT ANY PRICE". But, in truthfulness, peace at any price is not peace at all, it's merely selling oneself short of God's best. One was like one side of my family, my 2nd like the other– I have my backbone firmly back in place and it's not moving without God's say-so in any matter even in the face of slander over the last several years –I've simply kept to what I've known is right and didn't cave.
Diane
40
Ogden Utah
divorced
Had a LOOONG wait in the doctor's office yesterday and read through 10 and 11 in one sitting… while simultaneously being forced to face some of my insecurity. As I wrote out my chapter 9 prayer, I noted one of my fears is that I'll never hold my child in my arms. I'm 33 and just had my first pregnancy end in miscarriage last November. And yesterday was the date for my annual trip to the OB/GYN. Tough to see all those pregnant girls — and all but one woman in the waiting room were visibly pregnant (and they all looked happy to me, even if some of them may not have been).
So —
Regina
married
33
Moberly, MO
1. Gods
2. Men's insecurities seem more frequently action focused (that fear of failure involves doing or not doing something), where women's seem so often about appearances.
3. I'm definitely drawn to omniscience. I'm trying to be less of a gossip (I like to tell, but I like even more to hear), but it all ties back into the same want to know everything, even when those things can really hurt me.
Both resonated with me because I struggled with both earlier on in our marriage but more with omniscience in a major way. I felt that the only way to control everything was to know everything at all times. It was not only exhausting to keep up with but you're right Beth, I couldn't handle some of what I would hear. I realized that I was not only hurting my husband but really destroying myself and that I was going to have to trust God with him and believe the best of my hubby no matter what I had been put through by others. He didn't have to pay for that. I think that when you live in bondage like that you eventually tempt your husband to hide and at times lie for fear of repercussions. Now I am very blessed and happy to report that I no longer do that and him and I have great heart to heart intimate discussions that do not cross the line into unhealthy. This chapter was a sad reminder of what I was and still am capable of doing if left unchecked by God and awesome teachers like you. Thank you.
Beth,
This is my first time to leave a comment. I was just like the woman who took the cover off her book so no one would know what she was reading. None of us want to appear to be insecure, especially to our husbands. I so needed chapter 10 to remind me that men have insecurties too and how i need to work harder to build him up and stop trying so hard to change him and control him.
Chapter 11 showed me i want to be all knowing and all in control.
I am praying God will help me to let go and let him.
Question: No church in my area is doing the simulcast on April 24. Will i be able to watch it on my computer?
I love you and thank you for all you do to make Gods word so enjoyable!!!
1. I don't "generally think" of men in either of these ways……never really thought of men as gods or as devils. However I have met many men who fall into the devil category. But most men I know fall somewhere in between the two categories.
2. The insecurities to me seem close to the same. It is interesting to focus on the differences between how men and women "handle" their insecurities. As you so beautifully stated "Men withdraw when they feel insecure and women cling." It seems to me that most men just cover their insecurities better than women.
3. The whole "control freak" issue just hit a little too close to home for my comfort. I never realized my efforts to control were a part of my insecurities. Beth, you help to open up my eyes in so many ways!
Karen
married
50's
Tennessee
1. I think that depends on seasons and relationships that I was in at the time. Both would be my answer.
2. First and foremost I admit to being naive…never really thought men would have insecurities so as far as differences, I think men would hesitate to admit them as most of us don't want them to have them. I also was amazed that several men indicated physical appearance…thought that was just for women to tangle with.
3. Absolutely as a control addict, this really hit home and opened my eyes again to new areas I can surrender to the Lord and allow Him to control while I pray.
Still have lots of work to end up on 4/24 as a secure woman. I know He can do it, though.
Janae
40's
Married
Riverside,PA
I have to start out by saying that these two chapters were really enlightening. I'm going to have to re-read both chapters several times to get it all to sink in. Thanks for helping me think. I'm only 37, but feel like it's already getting harder for me to absorb and keep information! 🙂 And I laughed out loud at your doctor's office moment! I could completely picture it in my head. Thanks for being so vulnerable!
1) I've tended, mostly, to think of men as gods. And when I've done that, much of my insecurity has boiled up because if they've rejected me or made me feel like they didn't think I was worthy of them, I always felt less-than. I've definitely had my moments of thinking of them as devils, where I swore I'd never date one again or give them my time. Thankfully, I got over that and have now been married for nearly 9 years to a great man. I still struggle to find my identity in Christ alone instead of through my husband, though.
2) I was really caught by surprise by the second fear of men you mentioned: fear of failure to prove himself a man. I'd NEVER heard that before, and as soon as I started reading it, I could see it plainly in so many men in my life. You're right, that a woman pretty much always knows she's a woman and doesn't think twice about it. That was a real eye-opener and makes me see men in a different light. I feel bad that they have that pressure!
3) I think I tend to struggle more with omnipotence than omniscience. It makes me feel more in control if I can keep tabs on everyone and be sure that I know where my husband is all the time and who he's keeping company with. I feel like sometimes I put myself in a little box- same things to do, same people to spend time with- and then there will be no surprises and I can keep it all in order. I feel like I probably miss out on some of life because I'm too nervous to let us all out of the box. I didn't realize that I have such issues with control.
It's been hard not to read ahead! I just finished Jesus the One and Only, so now I'll have even more time on my hands and want to read ahead! 🙂 Thanks for this book!
Jen H.
30's
Sun City, AZ
married
Lonna
40's
So Married
Albany, OR
1. I have seen men as both gods and devils but more gods than devils.
2. Men's insecurities seem to be tied in to how they perform compared to other men, and also how well they provide. Not so emotional.
3.Both omnipotence and omniscience resonated with me. My husband accepted Christ as his Savior in 2001. I on the other hand do not remember not knowing Christ. It has been quite a struggle to encourage my husband to "lead" when he's not a leader by nature. The church we attend has no discipleship program So, that left it up to me! But my husband is of a very gentle nature and since I'd already tried the bullying approach and found it to fail miserably, I tried the subtle approach. He was so patient with me ("Sure, we can talk") and always agreeable with what I said ("you're right honey, I should read the Bible more") but never really put anything into action, as far as I could tell. But when things get rough I sometimes get so frustrated and just blurt out "ARE YOU EVEN PRAYING ABOUT THIS? Or am I rowing this worry boat alone"? He always calmly replies, "I am praying. I pray more than you think I do". Which shames me into silence. He's such a Godly example to me of exactly how to rest in God and not worry but because he's not doing it the way I was taught (weeping, attending church every time the doors are open, reading the Bible then getting on his knees, praying Psalm 51 out loud)I didn't think he was doing it right. Turns out he is doing it right. Very right. So he is more of a backseat leader. He lets me think I'm leading, but come to find out he never lets go of the reigns. He just lets me think I'm a big girl, driving all by myself, when in reality, I'm sitting on my husband's lap, his hands over mine and our Father's hands over both of ours and I'm so not driving all by myself. Through his gentleness, he has taught me to trust him and he trusts God. And I do leave every final decision to him and it feels good. But back to that omnipotence. It hasn't completely gone away. For example, just a couple of months ago, I bought him a NASCAR Bible! My husband is a big NASCAR and F1 fan so I thought this was perfect! In between chapters there's pictures of race car drivers, fun facts and even some of their testimonies! What better way to get my husband to read the Bible than this? I gave it to him and he accepted it so graciously and flipped through it for a few minutes. He then set it on his side of the headboard where it remains to this day resting comfortably under a box of half eaten Assorted Chocolate Truffles made by the Brigittine Monks in Amity, Oregon. Aside from that initial polite interest it has not been opened since the day I proudly delivered it to him. But I know I have changed a bit, I don't nag about it at all. He's not an idiot, he knows it's there. I have also learned that God Himself is perfectly capable of "disciplining" His own children without my help and He has done a marvelous job with my husband.
Lonna
Married
40's
Albany, OR
My previous "comment" was too long, so here is how omniscience resonates with me:
I have been blessed with a husband of integrity and everything we have is open to each other. Especially those things that could be so easily kept secret. My husband knows my passwords, I know his. If I have a situation where I have run into a friend who is male and we hug and spend a little time visiting, I always tell my husband right away so that if word ever got back to him that his wife was "meeting up with men and chit chatting", he can say "I know, she told me". He also tells me of situations that could come back to me in a wrong way. Being a good looking man, he's been approached by various women who have asked him to go to dinner, take them fishing (what?) go for walks on breaks at work, etc. I get a little jealous, but prefer to know than not. Honestly, the jealous female in me would like to pull their hair and scratch their eyes out, but the sane female says thank God he was honest enough to tell me. Anyway, all that to say early on in our relationship you couldn't find a more jealous woman than me. It threatened to destroy our relationship. I am guilty of what you mentioned on page 220; " We can insist on knowing more about our mate's past relationships than we end up being able to handle". You are not just whistling Dixie there sister. It wasn't easy to get it out of him either. I had to work on him over and over. I pulled the Delilah scene repeatedly, "you don't love me, if you did you would tell me everything". And cry big old tears. Eventually he did give in and tell me. And it was devastating to me. A deadly combination of my creative imagination and my jealousy, created a bomb that nearly blew our whole relationship sky high. I can remember his voice coming to me through the thick of my storm saying " I told you it would hurt you"! I didn't care. I became so distrustful of him, I checked up on him, I called him at various times, it was so ugly. And this was a relationship that had ended 2 years BEFORE WE MET! How insane is that? Fortunately, I serve a merciful and gracious God who gave me a very patient and loving husband. I made it a goal to pray and pray and pray about this. I had to force my mind not to dwell on it and just trust God and my husband. Over the course of the years, yes years, God did heal my mind. I can't say that the thoughts never come back, or that jealousy doesn't try to come in for a visit, but I can say that when Jealousy and Wrong Thoughts do come knocking, I recognize who it is at the door and I turn to God and say " You answer it". And it works. He is a faithful good God and not only did he bless me with the most wonderful husband on the earth, He helps me keep him. *smile*
Cheryl
married
50s
1. Devils.
2. Men's insecurities seem to be tied more to their jobs, how much money they make, whether or not they are good providers, being viewed as weak or unmanly, and being worried that others may be better than them.
3. I tend to struggle with omnipotence more. I find myself wanting to control situations and people…
1) I would have to say that men have been "gods" to me. For some reason, ever since I was a teen, I have put relationships with men up on a pedestal, thinking that I have no say in them. As I look back over my life, I can see that most of the bad relationship choices I've made have been a result of this mindset.
2) I see men's insecurities show up in how they perform, whereas we women tend to have our insecurities tied to how others see us.
3) oops – for some reason I thought this week's assignment was just on chapter 10!!!! I guess I better get reading. And here I was worried that I would get too far ahead!!! 🙂
Judi – Orillia Canada
Married
50's
Tonya
40's
Married
Searcy, AR
1. Until about 3 years ago I'd say "gods". At that time an event occured that wounded me so deeply it has become a daily battle not to view them as "devils". This is a battle I desperately want to win as I am parenting 5 sons. I desire to have a healthy view so I can rear healthy men.
2. I was going to say how different we were, but in really rolling this question over in my mind it seems we are so much the same. We internally beat ourselves up about things that we are worried about externally. "How do I look? How do I compare? Do I make the cut? Am I good enough?" It's the processing that seems to be the difference. I DWELL on it. I think myself into an emotional mire of muck and yuck. Followed by self-doubt and loathing. My DH ACTS on it. He gets mad and blows up or shuts down. Gets it all out of his system and then moves on. Whereas I'm still dwelling, stuck in my self made pit. That's how my boys act also. Blow up, duke it out, get back to playing. I've been a girl and I've watched girls play….they don't get back to playing so quickly. There is more consoling and pouting and more explaining involved (as a general rule). Just my thoughts on the matter today.
3. I have most certainly done both, but my biggie is OMNISCIENCE. Ugh. I came to realize at that event 3 years ago that I'd spent my life trying to be someone else's Holy Spirit. It was a painful, eye-opening experience. One I still struggle with unfortunately. I cannot tell you how much it has meant to be to hear you share tidbit from your marriage. (My DH thinks he and Keith would get along just fine!) The things you talked about the Tree of Life vs. Knowledge of Good and Evil. Whoa. You said a mouthful there. I hope younger women can read this and not have to battle some of the things I KEEP swinging away at because of this very thing. You know though the idea that that tree was about GOOD and not just evil has had me comtemplating that aspect of it for a while now. Knowledge of Good. Did man only know Holy before and was this a 'dumbing down' of mankind? I digress….
OnYa!
I have a quick question since I have been reading this book and praying every insecurity has been coming out even the one I thought were gone (my husband is seeing it too ) is this normal Not sure is God telling me to face them with him..Could someone help me with this its very overwhemling at time
Sharon 40 married
Clinton,N.Y.
I took a break from So Long Insecurity for awhile… I was feeling too insecure 🙂 This morning, God led me back. I could hardly wait as my computer loaded up to get on and see what was waiting for me. I had to laugh when I saw what chapters the blog was on. It's exactly what I've been struggling with. Don't you just love God's timing???
Historically, I have seen men as gods. Namely, one man. Until I saw him as the devil. I held him up on such a high pedastal that when the truth came out my world crashed down. And it crashed down hard. Christ was there fighting for me and has taught me some incredible lessons.
I feel that men's insecurities pertain more to being seen as a failure, incapable of providing or proving themselves as worthy. They doubt themselves on how smart they are, how much they have going for them in life, how much of a "man" people view them to be.
Women face many of the same issues as men. We have the added insecurity of never measuring up to a man in terms of what we can do and being unable to prove ourselves just as worthy of men. We are also much more hung up on physical attributes but why wouldn't we be when we know that men are highly visual creatures? All it takes is one woman we perceive as better than us in some way to get our insecurities on high alert.
Both omnipotence and omniscience resonated so greatly with me I was ready to buy every woman I know a copy of the book. I've seen other women struggle constantly with the same issues. I have the constant desire to control everything in my life. It stems from when I was a child and went through a few months of my life unable to control anything happening arond me–my little brother was in the hospital practically being swallowed up by the big bed around him and I sought control and perfection because I saw it as the only way to keep the bad stuff out. It's a nasty habit. I hate my need for control and want so desperately to trust God and leave everything in His hands without trying to step in and control things and do it my way when I feel he's taking too long or not doing things as I would like Him to. Which also leads to omniscience. Everytime something good happens, I feel an incessant need to analyze every detail and try and find God's answer right away. To say I have no patience is an understatement. I want to know the reason for everything, the why to every last detail. And I will sit there and hammer to God all the reasons why I believe it is Him at work and could He just tell me it's Him and what will happen because I don't want to be hurt again until I am absolutely sick of myself. I hate that I do this. I hate that I constantly seek answers and feel a need to over analyze everything. I just want to breathe and leave everything in God's capable hands. And be secure in knowing that if things don't go the way that I want them to, He has something better for me and I just need the patience to wait and find out what it is…
Heather
Single
Chino Hills, CA
20's
susan
long island,ny
50's
married
1) I would say that unless I run across a man who has wronged me terribly (rarely),I tend to think of them as gods not devils. I still have ideas in my mind that men should be the head of the household and the primary breadwinner(although I do work). This puts alot of responsibility and expectation on my husband. I have the attitude that I want to be taken care of and in this economy its not working. I now see I have been looking to my husband rather than god for this.
2)I feel mens insecurities are about not providing or doing well financially whereas women are not fitting in society (or the in group) and acceptance as a whole. Men are more bottomline and factual, and women are more emotional.
3)In my particular case I tend to strugle with omnipotence. Many times I try to do things myself on my own accord without prayer or thinking god can't help me. I sometimes think people who don't rely on god ( unbelievers) are getting ahead of me or succeding more than me so I'd better become like them and not rely on god (bad thinking). Not believing god will help me so I do it on my own.
Karen
50
married
Kansas
Hmmm, I would definitely have to say I tend to view men as gods.
Beth, God is using this book to change me, and it was so incredibly painful to read a description of me on page 210~I am a women who WAS trying to control someone toward what I was convinced is a better life. It still hurts me to see how my insecurity wound itself into my relationship with my husband. With God's help, that is going bye bye.
Oops, forgot to say that is my answer to the page 208 question on omnipotence. I want to leave the control to God.
Tammy
Clarksville, TN
30s
married
1. Honestly, not sure about gods or devils, but if I had to pick, I would lean more towards gods. Sometimes it seems that men just have it more together than women do.
2. As for the differences in men and women's insecurities. I think women's are much deeper while men's are pretty surface. I definitely think that men's mainly have to do with fear of failure, in whatever area that means at the moment, while women, I think, mainly focus on fear of rejection (once again in whatever area that means at the moment). I definitely can see that men withdraw and women cling when those insecurities arise.
3. I definitely related to the omnipotent aspect of Ch. 11. I can totally see myself trying to do God's job sometime. I am definitely a control freak, when I allow myself to give in to that temptation. Thankfully, I am aware of that and am able to work through it most of the time, but there are definitely still those other times when it rears its ugly head – sometimes at home, sometimes at work, sometimes in just plain, ordinary, everyday conversation.
Beth – thank you for putting into such simple words what so many of us feel! This has been such a powerful book and I find myself eagerly anticipating Thursday's!!!
Cathy
New York
Married
40's
1. I was so happy to read this chapter and honestly say, " I don't think I view men as gods or devils." I think I have a healthy view of men as fellow sojourner's.
Praise God!
2. I agree that women wear their insecurities more out in the open than men.
3. I definately resonate with both omniscience and omnipotence.
Thankfully, my husband has never let me exercise either on him successfully. I grew up in a house "out of control", so my desire to control life has been strong. Thanks for saying that with kids we do need to "know" as much as we can, but I need to be careful of trying to exercise supernatural power in their lives.
Kara
34
Married
Aurora, IL
1. My tendency has definitely been to view men as gods…but I think I sometimes expect my husband to be a devil…
2. My husband and I talk all the time about how different the ROOT of our insecurites are. On the outside, they seem different, but really they are the same. I suffer a lot with body image…and while he may not suffer it in the same way, he really DOES care about what he looks like (is he manly enough, etc). I think we both have a fear of failure in ministry…mine is more a reputation issue and his is more about letting God down and his family. All very interesting stuff. This chapter was really good in opening my eyes to more ways that he probably feels secure that I don't see.
3. Definitely omniscience…I tend to want to know everything…but I really don't need to know everything. Sometimes I push my husband for information and end up getting hurt in the end. I have learned that there are somethings we shouldn't discuss…but I can pray about.
1. I've generally viewed men as gods. Not always, but most of the time. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the fact that I have some very godly men(dad, brothers) in my life. I know none of them are perfect, but they have set the standard high.
2. Where men fear failure, women fear not being accepted/loved.
3. Although I relate to both omniscience and omnipotence, I struggle more with omniscience. There have been many times that I have wanted to know why things happen the way they do and I don't "get it" until long after. I can look back and see how not knowing protected me in so many ways.
Sara
Belton, Tx
18
Single
Amity
30's
Married
Virginia
1. I think my tendency is to view men more as gods then devils but have viewed them as both in the past.
2. I have never really thought of men being insecure like women, but as I was reading this chapter it made so much sense and I can definately see now what I didn't think of insecurity previously. Withdrawling, closing off, these are some of the things I thought were just "men". After reading this chapter I'm able to reflect and be a little more aware of some of these things. I agree that men's insecurities are a lot different then a woman's.
3. Omnipotence! I'm totally a type A personality and try to control everything in my life.It's frustrating, I guess I worried of losing something or getting hurt, or covering up for some insecurities. I'm despirately trying to work on this, my need for control is tiring at times.
Jeanie
Sparta, TN
Married
39
1. I tend to see most me as gods. I have a good relationship with my dad, a wonderful husband, and work everyday with great men of God. Maybe that is why is see them as gods.
2. I see men's insecurities as preformance driven. While I see most women's as emotionally driven.
I tend to view men as gods, especially my father and my husband, but there are some devils.
In my view men tend to be more insecure about how they perform or how you view their performance whether its their job, role as husband/father, or just general knowledge on a subject. As a woman I am usually more insecure about what you think/feel about me not how good you think I am. I think women tend to care more about others opinions, men want to be viewed as all-knowing.
The part about omnicience definitely resonated with me. I am a recovering CONTROL freak and when my children were younger, I would go to some pretty terrible lengths to find out information that I did not need to know! That is still something I wrestle with, wanting to know more than God would want me to about an issue, or person or a situation.
1.
I have to say I have viewed men as gods and devils. I have always bowed down to a man and served him , but then get mad at myself for it and call him a devil! Does that make sense!?
2.
Differences in men and women with respect to insecurites I think that men feel alot of pressure to be the provider and if they aren't doing it well it is threatening whereas woman know they are doing the best they can and we accept that.
I also agree that men have a strong need to be secure with there "manliness" where we as women know inately that we are women and act accordingly. Men seem to always think that in term of all things the bigger the better, whereas women or at least I don't even think about quanity or what have you. In other words I don't have to kill the biggest buck to feel like a woman!
3.
Oh boy! Both of these resonated with me! How rediculous I am to think that I could ever be omnipotent or omnicient! In essence some of the things I say and do are directly implicating that I must think this!
How much I feel repentant to this now, I just ask God to forgive me and kick me in the butt next time I do it, cause knowing myself as I do I will unknowingly do it again and I want Him to convict me of it
Shelley
Married
30's
Lakeland, Florida
1. I tend to see men as devils. I think that it is because I am still single and I have seen a lot of my friends go through divorces. I have also had my fair share of relationships that didn't work.
2. There is a few differences between men and women's insecurity, but for the most part, they struggle with the same issues that we struggle with.
3. I can see that I am more the omnipotence. I am the type of person who gives books, cds, etc to my friends because I think that it would help them. I need to let go and let God work in their lives.
Sandie C
Knoxville, TN
Single
30's
1) Throughout my life I'd have to say that I've teetered between the two (believing they were both gods AND devils). My husband's salvation has unfortunately become an idol to me over the past few years – pretty crazy when you really think about that. Turning something so amazing and wonderful into something hardly recognizable because of how badly you want it.
2) The women I know in "real life" tend to believe that they are valuable in day-to-day business, even if they don't feel good about themselves. They are aware that their family's lives would "fall apart" if mom wasn't around. But those same women have so much self-doubt over whether they are desirable or beautiful. Meanwhile, our husbands don't really give a rip what they look like, but tend to freak out at the thought of losing their jobs or not being able to "bring home the bacon." Our weaknesses tend to be the other's strengths (only speaking from personal experience here).
3. Yikes with a capital Y, Miss Beth. This part of the book is what spoke volumes to be over anything else (even that beautiful prayer chapter that invoked a lot of ugly crying). It all of a sudden hit me how much BOTH of these attributes sound like me. Wanting to know everything and control everything. Your description of "helping" Keith along is spot on with my own personal experience. I've also been known to want the entire story, whether or not I am able to actually "handle" it. To this day I do not know how many women my husband slept with before me. That was something that completely plagued me during our early years together. After a while it's become one of those things that has fallen by the wayside of my mind, but after reading this chapter I realized, I truly DON'T want to know. I don't need to know, don't want to know, will not ever seek out that information again. Period. Point taken!!
The other thing I realized (which will come up during our small group session, but will share a little here), my brother-in-law is getting ready to marry a girl that I really like a lot. She is walking into a broken situation, in that he is divorced and has a child from his first marriage. In my "omniscient" way of thinking, I tend to tell others more than they can handle just because I like being honest and think it's important to see how far people have come (progress is important). In this case, I've recognized that I need to guard her heart and my own by not divulging too much up front. I've been in the family for ten years now, and there are some things that one just needs to learn on their own. Hope that makes sense without saying anything else 🙂
I LOVE YOU!!!!
First, I have to say that I was laughing so hard at the blue paper shorts story; not at you, but with you because I have seen those things too many times to count since Oct. and 3 rounds of PT.
1)Both. It is almost like a yo-yo because I don't trust them completely (not even my hubs) yet I allow their actions to dictate how I feel or how they feel about me. I do have the severe abuse background of almost 9 yrs and never thought I would ever get married and forget having kids, yet here I am surrounded by 4 males. I think at times to show me that not all males are bad.
2) The men I know are in the fear categories of providing for their family and being okay with who they are. A friend's husband battles with her over who has the highest career status.
3) For me, omnipotence. I am a total control freak. I can see where it stems from not trusting anyone to provide or protect so I get in take over mode. It is my responsibility, right? lol. I know my boys have to survive in this world so I am a less controlling in that area so they can be who they are. But, am having to learn that they don't load the dishwasher they way I do, but that is okay, the dishes will get washed no matter.
I came across this blog entry and thought it so goes along with what we're learning about security.
http://stuffchristianslike.net/2009/04/512-thinking-youre-naked/
I guess I would have to say I view men more as gods than devils, and I may have entertained the thought of manipulating one (or two) BUT I've never acted on it. I'm too insecure, lol.
I can relate to both omnipotence and omniscience but I'd probably have to say I'm most drawn to too much information! My husband even calls me a gawker! I'm one of those who just HAS TO LOOK when we pass a wreck, and then I pay the price afterwards. I Love the way Beth explains it as the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I have never thought of it that way but I totally agree.
A few years ago my husband left a ministry that we had been very involved in for many years. This ministry was very very dear to us and we were saddened by the direction it was headed. My husband walked away and moved on. I on the other hand found myself still visiting their website a month or two after we left. I always felt guilty (that's a sure sign that it's not of God!!) after "checking up on them." I made a promise to God that I wouldn't continue visiting the site and I stuck with it until a month or so ago when I received a phone call that our contact info was still on the site. I checked it out then left the site, no guilt involved on that visit.
Marie, VA
30 something
married w/children
Missy
Tulare, CA
30's married
1. I have typically viewed men as gods. My poor daddy…talk about seeing men like trees, walking! I looked to my daddy as the perfect man; hardworking, strong, honest, loyal, faithful. As an adult, his imperfections came as an enormous shock that without God, I think could have crushed me. My refusal to see him and other men in my life (my poor husband) as regular men had so blurred my vision. Healing and acceptance has come I no longer have such a skewed misperception of men. Thank you God that once I was blind but now I see!
2. I believe that women are more obivious in their insecurities even when trying to hid. Maybe because I am a woman with insecurities I am familiar with the tricks to appear secure. I think our culture promotes the way men handle their insecurities in a more glamrous light (womanizing, cut throat business ethics to succeed, etc.) so it doesn't appear that their actions are a result of insecurities. Instead they are just being men. Like, Beth said on page 188, "One [women] feel frightened by it [failure], but the other [men] feels defined by it." Our culture has placed this pressure on our men. I found this discussion particularly insightful!
3. BOTH! I believe God. I have strong faith. However, I just can't seem to kick this overwhelming need to get involved! I loved page 214 "at the end of the day people will do what they want to do. You can't deliver them. Only God can. And that is why he is omnipotent and we're not." Wow, if that didn't hit me square in the eyes I don't know what would? And if that wasn't enough conviction, Beth's insight on our desire to be omniscient was profound! That God allows us to know what we can handle but if we continue to seek out info that was not meant by God for us to know – He won't necessarily stop us. Then we, like Eve, will suffer from eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I pray that this insight will be sealed on my heart as protection from myself! How I wish I would have had this insight long ago. God promises protection but requires obedience.
Liz 40s Married
Wow, these chapters were so awesome. Thanks for all the great insights, Beth, and all the thorough research. I'm so glad you wrote this book!
1. Men have always seemed a little more like devils to me. I was not abused, thank God, but grew up in a mostly female home with 4 females and 1 quiet dad. Guys never seemed to have a clue what was going on to me, and they seemed like a helpless bunch. I've had to confess my disrespect for men to God. They have always been kind of hard to figure out to me. I've been married for 25 years, and chapter 10 helped me understand my husband as never before. I know a lot of women with insecure husbands, but I never realized it before.
2. What an amazing chapter! I learned so much. I had no clue that men clammed up, withdrew, and acted depressed because of insecurity. I always thought they were indifferent, and just didn't care. Women tend to really want to talk about feelings and cling when insecure. That chapter was golden to me, and I've been able to have some very helpful discussions with my husband since reading it. He said it was right on. I know this is going to help me communicate better with the men in my life.
3. I related to omnipotence. I laughed out loud at Beth's words about trying to control Keith in a million ways when he refuses to be managed. I could have written that section about my husband without changing a word except that he likes Diet Coke instead of cherry limeades. Thanks for the candor. But what a gift from Beth and God to realize that I can rest assured that my husband must really love me, because no one could force him to stay with me 25 years if he didn't want to.
Bravo! Great chapters!
1. I think I see men as devils, some just are not what they seem to be.
2. I think that men just hid their insecurities better, women tend to let it rule their lives.
3. I think I am more with the being in control, i need to let God be God.
Linda Bartelso, IL
50's married
Alexis
Steilacoom, WA
30's
married
1. In all truthfulness, my historical tendency has been to view men as gods and devils. I think the man I am with I tend to view as a God and live FOR him. But because of the pain and heartache I have been through I have viewed other men as devils. I hope thAt makes sense!
2. Differences do I see between men’s insecurities and women’s are that women are much for verbal about it. We are also obsessive about it. I think men are quiet and keep it inside internally where rwomen tend to let the whole world know and pay for it!
3.Omnipotence and omniscience resonate with you me. This chapter brought me to tears! If you ever hit some one right on it, this was me. I am a C-O-N-T-R-O-L freak. And worse than that, I know it. But just like the books says the person whom can make you the most insecure you want to control. That is me. Because my husband had an affair years ago I really struggle with insecurity. I want to know and see everything. I try my hardest to control and change him. Beth, this book was written for me, about me! God bless you for using you to teach someone like me! I love you!
Betty
married
50's
Richmond, VA
1. I view men as gods.
2. the difference betwn men's insecurities and men's?
Men's insecurities seem to be rooted in how the world at large, or society views them; a performance based evaluation.
Women's insecurites seem to be rooted in experiences that affect perspective.
3. I've danced at both parties (omnipotence and omnicience) – niehter brings joy or satisfaction; both eventually lead to sorrow/rejection.
1. not really either
2. can't really compare but so interesting how men have insecurity about being real "men". that is really hard. And especially needing the validation from their fathers. explains alot!
3. This one is big for me. OMNISCIENCE definitely. I am – and my family teases me about it – so curious. I need to know everything in detail. Since reading this, honestly, I have chosen MANY times to NOT go after information that I really do not need to know. Mostly about my son. Information is so important when kids are growing up but now that he is a young adult and on his own, I still want to know everything and alot of what I can find out just hurts me. I am learning and choosing to trust God for my son's welfare & salvation. Thanks Beth.
Kimberly
32
Pleasant View, TN
Married with kids
1)I would say I tend to view men more as gods. I am a very loyal person, so I have had many more long-term relationships than short-term. In those relationships, I have tended to try to make them work out at almost any cost. It seems to me that I associate who I feel that I am greatly with how that man views me.
2) This may not be true across the board; this will just be speaking according to my own personal experiences. In my life, it has seemed to me that men tend to lash out more to cover up their insecurities whereas women tend to become more needy in an attempt to fix their insecurities. It also appears to me that men tend to place a great deal of their self worth in thier success at providing for their family whereas women tend to place more of their self worth in the success of their relationships with their family.
3) Both resonate with me. Omnipotence much in the same way as you describe with Keith. There are only certain people and things I feel the need to control, and, like you, only because I want to help them. I want them to be happy, and surely, I know the better way…which leads to omniscience for the same reasons. It is so easy to forget that God knows us better than we know ourselves. God knows all, so why do we feel the need to know all as well instead of just seeking His guidance of where we need to go and what we need to do. And you can DEFINITELY know too much!
God bless! Prayers for security going up!
Crystal
Way Up North, WI
46
Married
1) Mostly gods-I have let all of the men in my life affect my day based on their emotions from minute to minute, crying one moment, trying to smile the next. Most of the men in my life have anger management issues, and the more I cried or tried to do something 'right', the madder they got. Devils-in that I've been know to say 'that's men, they're all like that' … lumping them all into the devil category.
2) Men react with anger and destruction, pride, telling bigger and bigger 'stories'-they also retreat to their 'cave' to nurse their insecurities. Women talk, obsess, exaggerate, over think, obsess, obsess, obsess. Funny story: I use to stand outside my husband's 'cave' and poke a stick in (figuratively) asking if I could'help' him and if he was ready to come out and share! I gave him, ohhh 10 minutes, alone in his 'cave'! Ahem-not good!
3) OMStars, Keith and my husband could start a fan club and raise funds by selling all the 'help' I've purchased for him! Unfortunately, 'cute' was not mentioned by my man…and neither was something as exotic as omnipotence! Enough said about THAT! Omniscience-been there, done that a few million times. And in some instances God really worked to keep me away from more pain…He must've beat his head against many a wall with my stubbornness! The parallel of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was profound for me…like a thin veil was lifted with the story…a clarity of sorts. The questions of What is God showing me? vs. What am I demanding to be shown? Mind-boggling!
Grace and Blessings to you all!
Lindsay
25
Married
Maine
1. I think I've always had a fairly healthy view of men. I've never seen them as devils OR gods. I was very blessed to have grown up in a Christian home free from abuse or negative male influences.
2. Women are more vocal and obvious with their insecurities. While men withdraw or "cover it up", we're more likely to display our insecurities through emotions, cattiness, tears, foolish behavior, etc.
3. Omniscience. Like the girl in the illustration, I have also literally hacked into an ex boyfriend's emails. I've also nearly driven my husband batty with zillions of questions about women from his past, visual temptations, etc. to the point where it's probably best if I just didn't push for an answer. I HATE secrets and surprises, and I like to know it all. This can obviously be quite damaging to myself and others.
1. My tendancy with men – gods. My daddy is the best in the whole wide world and I have realized I have put him on a pedestal. Therefore, I do that with my husband.
2. Men tend to "shutdown" and keep things inwardly. Explains a lot with the way they react to things. Very revealing and helpful.
3. Omnipotence! WOW! I love to be in control. I can defintely relate to trying to change your man. Boy, have I ever been in that department. If it isn't with trying to get him to eat healthy it's with trying to get him to be more "spiritual". However, now that we have been married for 20 yrs. I have learned to let go of some of that. However, I still need to improve in that area. Very enlightening and THANK YOU for being so transparent!
Tina
40's married
Houston
1. I have to say I may have seen men as devils and Gods at times.
2. Never thought about men insecurities, was too busy dealing with mines. 🙂
3. I can relate to omnipotence and omniscience.. I have to control things and in order to do that… I need to know everything.
I acknowledge it!God please work it out of me!
Sharon
Divorced
40's
Sandy
40's
Winkler, MB
1. I have seen them as devils more often than I care to admit.
2. What I see is that although men and women may handle their insecurites differently, we seill focus on "us" and allow ourseves to be defined by wordly standards insead of allowing God to define who we are.
3.They both do. I have found myself doing both although as my relationship with God increases,I remind myself that I am not God and I cannot change anyone. I can pray. That is my part. The rest is up to God. As to the "tree of knowledge of good and evil", I have found myself there as well. It was not pretty then and it still rears its ugly head now and then. God, in His mercy, has helped me work through this and denounce it. I feel like I am finally recovering. Thank you Jesus!
1. I never really thought about how I view men before, gods or devils. I guess it depended on the season of life I was in at the time. But probably more as gods. I was always looking for some man to "fix" me. I think that I have viewed my son as a god, in that I have "idolized" him always in my life.
2. Failure to prove himself as a man. I never really thought about how different we are in that way but it is so true. I am a woman, that's just a fact. Now what kind of woman is a whole nother can o worms. But prove yourself to be a man….prove yourself to BE. These two chapters probably have been the most eye opening to me. They really hit home and caused me to see 2 important men in my life in a whole different light. The first: My 68 year old father is dying with congestive heart failure. He is literally bed-ridden in a nursing home as we speak. This was probably the strongest (physically) man I have ever known. Now, he needs help from his only daughter to use the bed pan & urinal because he hasn't the strength to do it for himself. What would that be like in a man's mind? I can only imagine the insecurity he is feeling in himself right now. Second: My 19 yr old son. Growing into a man…..and dealing with his insecurities. The word used to describe what men do when they feel insecure: withdraw! Fits him to a tee! Now these "battles" we have had these last couple of years make perfect sense to me. Men withdraw when they feel insecure and women cling. That is so us! What a tug of war we have been playing!
3. What divine attribute resonates with me? OMNIPOTENCE!!!! An insecure person's greatest need for control is directed toward those who have the most potential to either threaten her security or strengthen it. My control issue is aimed smack dab at my son. I am genuinely convinced that if he would just listen to me that his life would work so much better. My whole security at this stage in my life is my son. Did I do a good job as a mother? And if I did, shouldn't he be more "together" than he is right now? Wouldn't he be on the right track and following God's plan?
I truly confess, this is my attempt at "playing" God. I fear letting go and letting God direct Joshua's life. What if HIS plan for him is not the same plan as mine?
This has most certainly been my "lightbulb" moment! Thank you Beth for being so honest that it makes us take a good long honest look in the mirror.
Sherrie
married
Virginia
45
Caroline
Wisconsin
1. I think I have viewed men as gods, I give too much power to my spouse to affect my well being.
3.I could really identify with having a desire to control my husband and convince him to live healthier for his benefit(and mine!)
2.I think men express their insecurities differently.
Don't know how to keep this short as the questions were so meaty this week:
1) I vacillate between the two extremes. I think I recognize when I see men as "devils" more because I get so fired up and the anger/bitterness just flow. Seeing them as either is distracting. When I see them as "gods", I am distracted from seeing God Almighty and focusing on Him. When I see them as "devils", the bitterness and anger overwhelm.
2) Mens' insecurities strike me as being mostly "doable" things such as failing at something, accomplishing something, etc. Womens' insecurities strike me as "being" or "what we are/have" such as weight, hair, clothes, money, personality traits, etc. I know that is a generalization, but I think women have a huge problem with weight where alot of men just don't worry about how they look. I could see from the entries that men and women deal with things in alot of the same ways such as withdrawing, lashing out, etc.
3) Both of these things resonated with me. Omnipotence because I have so many control issues. Omniscience – I could have written one of those life stories myself. Been there, done that. The two things that jumped off the pages at me were:
A) An insecure person's greatest need for control is directed toward those who have the most potential to threaten her security. My poor husband!
B) If we're trying to play God, we need an ample dose of omniscience to fire up our omnipotence. We can't control what we don't know.
I'm getting better everyday but, God help me, I have a very long way to go to get rid of some of these "bad friends".
1-I tend to view men as gods. I had an awesome earthly Father who gave me a wonderful example of a Godly man and this has impacted my view of men positively. Longer story here but due to this example and seeing men through God's eyes I have forgiven much and am glad God created in me a compassionate woman of God. God does use all things for His good!!!
2-Day to day my observations for women that their insecurities are more physical with hair, makeup, etc at least more superficial. For men is more educational and performance driven. I am sure there are opposite examples but for me and where I am working it is obvious.
3-More insecurities with omnipotence on the whole but I notice when I am jealous or threatened it is omniscience so I can stay on guard. Omnipotence for me not to be right just have it as stressfree as possible for myself. Guess that makes it more of a perfectionist way.
I am learning more and more each day to let God lead to nip those stressors in the bud and be joyful in all situations. I have seen improvement in myself and hope as time goes on my children will not be scarred but blessed with wonderful childhood memories.
Jackie
almost 40
Little Rock, AR
Married
1. Honestly, I don't think I view men as either gods or devils. Somehow I escaped both views.
2. I asked my husband about men's biggest insecurity being fear of failure. He agreed. I think it's also important for men to feel significant. And women need to be valued…
3. Wow, this was eye opening — particularly the part about eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Knowing and knowing too much. Very helpful information. A problem as old as Eve, isn't that something? That old serpent is still up to his old tricks. But we don't have to fall for it, praise God!
Sue
Grand Rapids, MI
married
50's