Hey Everybody! I am so proud of you guys! Your discussions have been tremendous. I am especially happy that so many of you have jumped in with us late and gone back to the very beginning, signed in, and added your answers to the previous weeks of our book discussion. Way to go! As we moderate, we give the same attention to the comments on the older posts as the ones that are up-to-date. I promise you that community and active discussion will make your journey far more meaningful and hold you infinitely more accountable.
Ok, weāre about to get to a part of the book that I found highly interesting in research. The next several chapters involve the insights from the menās survey and I bet a few of their comments will pop your eyes open, too. In the mix of what we have ahead, weāre going to be focusing on men-related insecurities then soon after that (in coming chapters) weāll focus specifically on women-related insecurities. Each of us has a tendency to be less secure around one gender than the other and, according to the survey of over 900 of you, weāre almost evenly divided between the two. I pray weāre going to gain insight into some gender-related insecurities and stumble upon some much needed freedom. I really want you to read the portions about the men even if you donāt have a mate or a specific man in your life. If we have resistant, resentful hearts toward men, we canāt just avoid them altogether. They comprise the other half of our population so it really is imperative in our pursuit of wholeness that we get a grip.
Your assignment for this week is to read CHAPTERS 10 AND 11 and answer the following question:
1. Based on Chapter 10, in all truthfulness, has your historical tendency been to view men (generally speaking) as gods? Or devils?
2. Based on Chapter 10 and your own day-to-day observances, what differences do you see between menās insecurities and womenās?
3. On p.208 in Chapter 11, I suggest that women who struggle with insecurity tend to be particularly taken with 2 divine attributes: omnipotence and omniscience. Did either of these resonate with you? If so, how?
We are liable to have some LIVELY conversation this week! I canāt wait to see it happen! Just one little thing I want to throw out there: some of you may have some pretty big hang-ups with men because you have a background of abuse like I do. If it plays heavily into one of your answers, by all means, share what pertains but Iāve learned along the way that itās best to stop short of graphic descriptions. Most people have a hard time knowing what to do with those kinds of mental images. Iāve told every graphic detail in counseling situations but, publically, I try to stay general. Itās just too much for most listeners and readers. They have compassion but they just donāt have the answers. We know Who does.
Go for it, Girls! Iām so honored to take this journey with you.
Stacy 
First of all, Ms. Beth, God love you for being willing to share an embarassing moment for the sake of a point! I loved the story you told on yourself in the doctor's office with the oversized plastic shorts! Hehe. I chuckle even now. The mental picture of your dainty body (especially legs) in those shorts had me tickled all day. You didn't have to share that but you did, and that makes us love you all the more! …and then the fact that you don't take yourself so seriously that you tried to get a picture of yourself in the office while wearing the shorts…you are my kinda girl.
One more thing, most all of the guys you interviewed I really appreicatated their comments and felt they were genuinely coming from a place of peace and love. But you had a few that made me yell at my innocent book "OH WHATEVER, BANANA HEAD!" (as if the guy could hear me)
Just needed to get that off my chest. Okay, I'm ready to begin.
1. I've never really considered how I viewed men…mostly flesh and blood. Very little of my insecurity issues lies with men, so I've not spent a lot of time analyzing how I viewed them. I will say that after reading their insecurities, I have a new appreciation for their struggle. They are just as vulnerable and insecure as us- put a fresh perspective on how I view my husband. There is obviously much more going on in their minds, than I've often given credit to.
2.The thing that made my heart ache here the most for men was the fact that they want to proove they're men. As women, we acknowledge each other as women- I don't think any of us are trying to validate our "woman-ness." Our struggle is accepting that whatever type of woman we are- it's enough. But men's struggle at the root, just prooving to themselves first and then others that they are truly men. Again, made me feel very sympathetic for men and really look beyond my own self-pity. Opened my eyes to a man's perspective.
3. Omnipotence is my weakness. If I can control it, then I am not as afraid of it. Being driven by fear my whole life- control somehow falsely secured me in my world. Growing up in a home with physical & emotional abuse- a situation I had no control over nor means of escaping; as an adult- control is what I've craved in order to protect myself from any future harm. So much so, that to this day, I am never anywhere without my car. I like knowing that I am at no one's mercy and that I can leave a situation at any time- car's right outside. I walk into any room and immediately determine where all exit signs are and how I will get to them should the need arise. Being powerless is my greatest fear and being powerful is my greatest fight to obtain.
I must add here, that my sweet Savior is speaking to me through this book and His Word. So many Siesta's have posted scriptures that have comforted me in this point. I AM is a shield around me; I AM has clothed me with strength and dignity…it isn't possible to get any more power than that! Thank you Father for your patience with my brokeness. With all my heart, soul, and strength- I adore you.
age 30-ish
married
Texas
I am not sure which ā and devil is not the word that quite fits but I have never had a āgoodā man in my life until my husband. I donāt know what it would look like to have a wonderful daddy. Consequently this hits a very huge insecurity for me! I feel like I am not worth the same as a man in Godās eyes. The Bible seems to be only written for men, especially the Old Testament where we were not even valued as much as a man for the temple. The modern church has seemed to have taken Paulās words and have run with them trying to keep women in their place in the church. I have a hard time taking the Scriptures that you use and agreeing that they apply to me since I am a woman. I am having a very difficult time getting past this.
My husband is so open and he often shares with me his insecurities so I know what he is struggling with is very similar to me. It has given me such eyes to be able to be compassionate to other men to know what they are going through.
The omnipotence / omniscience really hit a nerve. I understood exactly what you were saying and have dealt with as I have been there and feel like I have dealt with it but wonder if it is just sitting passively underground waiting to jump out.
Stacy
Kimball, NE
40's
married
Heather
Euless
Divorced
Thirties
1. Based on Chapter 10, in all truthfulness, has your historical tendency been to view men (generally speaking) as gods? Or devils?
This varies depending on what environment I'm in. In personal relationships I would typically say Gods – because I invest my happiness in them. I know that my happiness only truly comes from knowing myself. At work, I would view men as devils for some reason – cut-throat and out for the bottom line and themselves as they climb the corporate ladder. That somehow to reach that level, I had to be ruthless and aggressive like a man, when in many cases there are some male coworkers and managers that don't manage with aggressiveness.
2. Based on Chapter 10 and your own day-to-day observances, what differences do you see between menās insecurities and womenās?
I definitely agree that a man struggles with what is the true definition of being a "man." They want to be manly and strive to be that without fully knowing what that means or what it all entails. I had a conversation with my better half about his insecurities and he stated that due to our age differences (we are 10 years apart) he's insecure about his appearance and attractiveness. Men also struggle with insecurity in terms of the accumulation of wealth – So far at a workplace I have seen 10 brand new BMWs, all driven by men (conveniently after bonus time) in order to address their status.
3. On p.208 in Chapter 11, I suggest that women who struggle with insecurity tend to be particularly taken with 2 divine attributes: omnipotence and omniscience. Did either of these resonate with you? If so, how?
Omnipotence is all powerful and omniscience is all knowing. For a long time, I definitely was more prone to omniscience. I believed I was all knowing and could read people's minds. This was something my mother did to me often and I passed it on. I would make irrational decisions, lash out, and sometimes react unfairly to what I thought I knew.
1.yes
3. Man issues-Omniscience resonated w/me-had never really been able to assign words to it. He healed me(us!) from a wicked and long season of insecurity and jealousy-where I was digging for information(incriminating proof) to the point where I was definitely "leading the witness" and wasn't looking for the right reasons anyway.
Even more helpful about this concept was that I've found that I still tend toward wanting more info than I'm supposed to have about other things too, like health. Almost magic 8 ball style, searching the broad world of internet as if I can find a specific answer to a question that only God can answer according to His will and timing! Its hard to find a balance between being resourceful and grabbing from the forbidden tree again! One of those tighrope walks that is only possible through a close and prayerful relationship. Thank God-He's willing to be there for that!
Only One is infallibly trustworthy-therefore I can afford to trust others unless its no longer wise to do so based on what He reveals!
Okay, I've gone back and read other's posts…
To Anonymous (To my husband) posted around 9AM….
Siesta, I don't know the details of your world, but I recognize the turmoil & anguish of your heart. And I know that God, alone, can fill the empty places of your heart that another human is unable to occupy. When we want someone to love us a way that they are unable to- it's awful. But God can and does love you in that way- the way that you need…and it's without strings or expectations- it's with arms wide open, right where you are. And you are always enough for Him.
1. I would say gods for sure…..thankfully I really have never been hurt by a man in my life. My most common thing is to place them too high on a pedestal. I far too often get my priorities out of whack and my husband takes first place when I know God needs too. I find so much security in him being tangible when in reality I know God is my only one true security.
2. For me it seems that women are more consumed by what other women think about them (in all categories). Insecurities based on what others think. To me men seem to be more insecure based on their own perception of how they should be (in all categories) not necessarily what those around them think.
3. Sad to say both omnipotence and omniscience both resonate with me. To think I am trying to be like God in those areas was eye opening. WOW!! Who do I think I am š I can really see that I am a control freak in all aspects of the word and in all aspects of my life. My poor husband! As far as all knowing…well that is one of my biggest downfalls. I feel like I need to know everything (all the details). Again, my poor husband!! You have opened my eyes to realizing I need to stop asking questions I canāt handle the answers to (some of my triggers) and I need to stop trying to control everything that I know only God has control over!!
Thank you Beth for being so faithful to write down the words God gave you!
These words I know are Godās answers to many years of praying about my insecurities.
He is speaking to my heart!!
Erin
Glendale, CALIFORNIA
32
Happily Married
Tamara
married
30
NB,Tx
1) I have always viewed men as gods. In my baby book next to the question "what is baby's biggest fear" my mom put in all caps:MEN. Odd question for a baby book..just as odd is the answer. I have always seen them as big,authoritive people that are very intimidating. I have always strived to please them, and often got my heart broken. My husband is the first man that ever loved me without me having to strive for it. I had such a history of putting men on pedestals,one in particular for years, that I find myself seeking security in my husband that is not his to supply. "Breaking Free" changed my unhealthy view of this..such a life changing study.
2)I seek affirmation over and over again when I feel insecure….where as my husband gets defensive and says he doesn't need anyone's approval.(pride)
3)When I married my husband I really thought it was enough that he was a believer. That was a check on my check list. It is so hard for me not to be tempted to nag him to do the things that will help him grow as a christian. But, I have seen that being a praying wife and "living" out the word of God..brings about much better progress. I loved that you said "Somewhere along the way, we have to acknowledge that our loved one is a seperate person from us-"
We have to let God do what only HE can do!:)
marilyn
61
MO
married
1. i have viewed men more as devils. when i first read the Bible……….i thought…….'where are men like this today??"
2. the thing that stood out most to me for men was their fear of failure……..as a man, in their profession, etc. women's fears are more relatonal……not being loved, not feeling significant.
3. oh yes, i've been a control freak for years, it's nice to know it was from a deep seated desire to be omnipotent. fortunately, as the years have gone by, it just became too exhausting and totally unsuccessful.. i just got tired of GOD prying my fingers off loved ones and situations………..learn your lessons earlier than i did siestas.
1. My tendency has been more towards seeing men as gods, particularly my husband, especially in the earlier years of our marriage. I centered way too much of my focus and security on him…and not enough on God. Thankfully, God has corrected that focus, but I still have a tendency to lean that way.
2. I think that women's insecurities can tend to be more "recognizable" from the outside; whereas, men's are exhibited in less overt forms (withdrawal, intense competitiveness) that is more often just chalked up to just "being a man".
3. I think I pretty studiously avoid the power thing, but the omniscience…wow, you are spot on! I really appreciated how you depicted it as chosing to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil…pushing for more information than God knows is good for me to have. I'm trying to change to a Philippians 4:8 focus instead.
Deborah
married
40's
Clearwater, Fl
Becky
Brentwood TN
40's
married
Mercy! Those 2 chaps were so helpful!! I'm so pumped I can barley type my answers.
1. Devils, growing up with a father who was an alcholic, a brother who didn't like me from the get go,I saw men as devils more than gods.
2.Not much differences in M/W insecurities. The only difference may be men don't talk about or admit to them like we women do.
I want to thank each man who answered the survey ?'s. I had no idea men struggled with the same garbage we women do. I know now that I have a man who struggles with insecurity. Now it all makes sence to me.
3.I can't say either of these resonated with me. I kept looking for them in me, but really couldn't see it. I'm one of the few who think ignorance is bless, and I've never been accused of being controling…I think I'll ask my BFF and my adult children if I am.
BUT Beth, I must say you gave me a might powerful tool to use…oh honey, pg 225 last paragraph–end of chapter.
Thank you sweetie. Thank you.
Katie
48
Single/Divorced
Dallas, Tx
1)I see men like trees walking. I love that. It is so me. I have viewed men as both gods and devils. My mother viewed my father as a god and that always made me mad because he so was not a god! In an attempt not to be like my mother I sometimes end up viewing men as devils. But alas, the apple does not fall far from the tree and sometimes I see them as gods.
2. I believe the insecurities of men and women are differnt in that they relate to our traditional roles. Men tend to have insecurities about being the strong provider and women about being attractive nurturers.
3. Oh boy did omniscience resonate
with me and how!! I have so done the "eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil" thing. Thank you for shedding some light on that for me. It really helped me understand it.
ooops
1)Men to me were devils and gods in my past, I had lots of hurts and hang ups from going through 2 divorces a child.Having my step father on a pedastool only to see him fail my family and to walk away on the vows he made to my mother. I had a boyfriend that I squeezed the life right out him, wanting him to fill the void of hurts and to heal my broken heart.
2)That as women we are more selfish with our insecurities than men. Men is more about not being able to supply for the family and so on. And us girls is more on past hurts and hang ups.
3)Well for me it would be the control,wanting to protect others from going down the same heartache and pain paths, but to choose life and life more abundantly.
Cassie
Bishop,Ca
20's
Happily married
Penny
43
Kentucky
married
I had been raised to believe that men were like gods to be obeyed and submitted to without question. I saw my mother physically abused by my alcoholic father and my sister and I were included in the emotional and mental abused from his controlling and demeaning behavior. So for most of my life I have seen men for the devils I believed they truely were inside. Male friends of the family were always making advances toward me, I "blossomed" early and didn't realize the affect my appearance had on men. Everyone always told me how beautiful I was, how was I to know that could be a bad thing, I was too young to understand the way a man's mind could work.
1. So to answer the first question I would have to say devils because once I had seen how devious they could be as a teen and young woman I didn't understand how God could expect me to submit and obey one of them. My mind is slowly changing, He is still working with me.
2. I believe that we both have some of the same insecurities but they effect us differently. Men wanting to be powerful and successful and women wanting to be desirable and living a life with purpose and meaning. Okay maybe that is just what I want but I do believe we, both men and women, have insecurities that are equally haunting we just deal with them in different ways.
3. Both-omnipotence and omniscience. I want to control everything around me (at times) and I want to know why it's happening. My husband and three children all tell me that I am a control freak- not that harshly but I know what they mean, I am. I also want to know what makes them do the things they do, especially when they don't follow my advice. I can remember when my son, he's my oldest, was an adolesent and I made up papers for him to fill out during church service. I was in the chior (only the Lord knows why because I can't sing) and my son sat in the pew without me (his father didn't attend)and his sisters were in the nursery. I noticed with great embarrassment that he never seemed to pay attention during the service so I created a paper for him to fill out that required him to listen. He had to write in the names or page numbers of the songs the congregation sang, the title of the sermon and the location of scriptures read (John 3:16, etc.) write a few points that was made and then he could doodle or draw a picture of something that pertained to the sermon. I knew he was in church and knew he didn't cause a huge destraction but I wanted to know that he was listening.
I am still a work in progress, God is long from being finished with me yet.
When I think about this chapter, I am mindful of some gossip that has made it to my ears about a certain beautiful starlet and allegations regarding her husband. I just wanna hug her and assure her of the promises in the Word of God. It hurts to see or even know about someone hurting in that way. Not to mention the fact that the whole world is in on it. Yet, I know that God is able to lift them both out of the ashes..(Everyone involved, in fact) I am praying for God to be glorified here. Wouldn't that send that ungodly spirit for a loop? Yes, Jesus!! Your perfect will be done!
I have to be honest and I have nowhere else to go with this, pathetic as that is. I am reading the book, but I am drowning. It's hard not to be insecure when you have no friends and not one person really cares about you. I have my husband and my kids and I know I know I know that the Lord should be enough and my family too, but I am so tired of being invisible. I am so tired of having no one in my life and I am really trying not to give up.
1. gods. "Boys" were always highly esteemed in my family – prized more than girls and somehow I developed the idea that they were superior, held all the answers, could solve all the problems, make all things better etc.
2. Until I got married. Then I realized from the close up view I got of my own man that they were just as insecure as women. I just think they hide it better. I have always been fairly independent so I didn't go into marriage "needy" but I did have some expectations of him being the strong, secure mighty warrior-leader type who had answers and would step out in leadership, that did not pan out. I had no clue how insecure my husband was when I married him. He put up such a solid front and I believed him. As I began to see his insecurities unfold – honestly I began to panic – who was going to be my superman if he wasn't? How could I have not seen who he really was? Did I miss God on this?
It wasn't long into my marriage that I had to face the harsh reality that not only was he not going to be my superman, he wasn't going to "complete me" like all those sweet Valentine day cards and wedding poems promised. Nor was I going to be his dream women or complete him. I remember being jealous everytime I heard another wife gush over how much her husband completed her – how he was her world – I wanted that – but it just wasn't there. (if you are a single male and reading this – marry a dependent girl – I am convinced they make better wives!) The honest fact was we were not going to complete each other and we both knew it.
If it were not for Christ we would have despaired…
It was in those desperate years that I casted myself on Christ like I've never done before. I was so desperate for someone to fill me up, to satisfy the deep longings, to be my everything. If Jesus were just another human-man He would have high tailed it out of there – so would I, if someone else approached me that desperately. But I found what so many of you know to be true – He could handle it like no man could -and not only handle it, He was it! He was the real McCoy – HE was the superman I was missing in my husband, He was my protector,He was my completer, He filled me up like no one or thing could. For me, it took the stripping away all those other things that I thought were dream-fulfillers to really get that down deep in my core. (great job, house, husband etc) I see now how wrong I was to expect from my husband what only Christ could deliver and that truth has made all the difference in my marriage.
Here's what I know today. I am most happy with my husband and most content in my marriage when I am most dependent on Christ to fill me up. When I step out of that place (which I still do, for the life of me I don't know why but I do) and shift that need onto my spouse then things inevitably go awry. Insecurities flare, unfulfilled needs scream for attention and we become a mess all over again.
I know this did not exactly answer your question – but I hope maybe it will encourage someone else who knows the Lord but hasn't yet found Him to be her everything.
To CAROLINA CHEESHEAD on March 20 @ 8:51
I just wanted to say WELL SAID! Thank you for sharing with us. I think we all have to remember who to look at for fulfillment, in all areas of our life. It makes a huge difference! Amen!
To Anonymous on March 20th @ 8:44
My heart aches for you! I will so keep you in my prayers. I don't know who you are or where you are but God does and HE sees you. You are not invisible to Him! He loves you and He sees you!
1) In my younger years I would 100% agree that I thought of men as gods. All my best friends in High School were guys and after I got married I put all my well being into my man. Also, my mom is narsissistic and, as a child, I lost respect for the female gender and came to not trust them. I feel now I'm pretty much in the middle road on my thoughts of men. If I had to pick one over the other I probably lean towards thinking of men as gods.
2) I do see in my man that he can be insecure in having the responsibilities that God has given him as a husband and father.
3) Definatly omnipotent. I can be very controlling. I have noticed that since God has healed me, I've tended to give most of that up.
Tamara
Highlands Ranch, CO
Married
30's
I just had the God-given chance to work through Chapter 9 this week. Like so many of you, I knew that God directed Beth's words. It was perfect and I am continuing to remind myself of my God who is My Redeemer!
I have walked in so much shame all my life, ironically from a very oppresive church. I am walking tall with Psalm 31:25 as my new life verse! I needed to have it very visible – so it is now framed in a very visible place in my office.
I am praising God with all of you that the enemy has been exposed and is being defeated.
With Joy!
1. I think I see men more as gods, since I think that only be being desired by one of them will I prove that I am worthy as a woman. However, since I didn't date much and haven't had much "success" in that whole area, I kind of ignore men in general and lean on independence.
2. Not really sure about the answer to this question. Maybe women seem to allow their insecurity to be scattered over every possible arena, and men seem to keep theirs more focused? And women seem to be more honest about theirs. Since I don't really know men well, I'm not really qualified to answer.
3. I think I want both omnipotence and omniscience–I definitely struggle with wanting to control things to make myself feel secure, and I can only control effectively if I know what I need to know. . . This is why I have found myself exhausted trying to keep track of everything and everyone and doing God's job. . .
Single
40's (barely)
O'Fallon, MO
1. When I was younger, I tended to see my father as a god, who could do no wrong. And then in my teenage and early 20 years, I began to view them as devils. I was hurt badly in a relationship and I tended to view all men in the same light, as jerks who would inevitably hurt me. They could never measure up to the image of my father. Unfortunately I didn't realize that I was choosing the wrong type of young men. Duh! Tigers don't change their stripes. Thankfully, God began to change my thinking and when I met the man that would be my husband, I knew that he was the one, and I couldn't hold anyone else's behavior against him. We have been married for almost 27 years and sometimes I have had the tendency to see him as a god. But God has shown me when I tend to do that and I am trying to see him as the human that he is.
2. I think that men's insecurities tend to do with their manhood, where they work, how they provide, how successful they perceive themselves to be and how successful others perceive them to be, not necessarily monetary success, but what they do.
Women tend to measure themselves by other women, or how they think other women perceive them.
3. I am not a controlling person. Until it comes to my family. I feel like what they do, say, wear, etc. is a direct reflection on me. I have never been able to control my husband, and I probably wouldn't respect him if I could. But that doesn't seem to stop me from trying. My children are both grown and I know that they are separate people from me and that they will ultimately do what they want. I do know this. And God is working on me with the family control thing. But goodness, sometimes it is hard.
I struggled more with the omnipotence issue in the past. I learned the hard way that if God wanted me to know something that He would reveal it. When I dig and find things out, it only makes a mess. You are so right Beth, there is knowing, and there is knowing too much.
For Anonymous: March 20, 2010 8:44 AM
You sound like you feel hopeless. What makes you feel invisible & what would make you feel visible?
Praying for you!
Cindy
30s
Newton Tony, England
1. Probably gods. I was the girl in high school that always had to either have a boyfriend or be in pursuit of one. I didn't like being alone. Part of this stemmed from my sibling choosing a lifestyle of homosexuality (for a season) and I was deathly afraid of 1. Being classified as gay just b/c my sibling was and 2. I wanted to prove to myself that I wasn't. Fear can be such an LIAR! Fear tormented me!
2. Men tend to "hide" and women tend to "cling". This is so true! When we are feeling insecure we want to have our friends and/or husbands close by to hear our concerns and tell us how right we are.
3. Both omnipotence and omniscience I can relate with. I am definitely one who likes control. But I moreso relate with omniscience because I do always want to know what's going on, what my husband's thinking, what happened in the past with him, etc. (Side note: I tell you what, if I didn't love y'all so much, I don't think I could write these answers. This is really challenging me to open up about things I've struggled with my whole life.
Proverbs 31:25 "She is clothed with strength and dignity" has been my banner verse during this season. Thank you Beth for highlighted such a beautiful Scripture. This verse has just about set me free on numerous issues the last month. I hear Him speaking that verse to me all the time. It is amazing how protective of our insecurities and fears our Heavenly Father is. Just recently, our family received some disappointing news which devastated my husband and I. It was nothing life-threatening but just something simply we had hoped for that God closed a door to. I felt God use verse 25 as a specific reminder of how when we are embarrased about an outcome or disappointed He can and will 'clothe us with strength and dignity' and take that precious dream we had and cover it with the beauty of His hands and shelter us from embarrassment and gossip from others. Sometimes, we hope for things that just weren't in God's will or at least in His timing and when we experience the pain of disappointment and are worried about what others may think, we can rest assured that God "covers" us and protects our reputation, our feelings and our hearts. I have experienced a deeper awareness of His love because of this revelation this past week and I'm so thankful that I have a Father in Heaven who cares so deeply about me.
Sarah
30's
single
1) I guess I would have to say a little of both, but mainly gods. Gods in the sense that I wasn't good enough, pretty enough, desirable enough, etc. (I have only dated a handful of guys my whole life and haven't dated any one in much longer than I care to disclose here!) Perhaps a part of me also views them as devils since 2 male family members treated me very poorly, to the point that some would consider it abuse. I think as a result of that and that I was always picked on at school, I do somewhere deep inside have the assumption that MOST men (and honestly at my age, nearly all the men my age) are hard-hearted, mean and hard to please.
2) This is a harder one for me to answer since I'm not married (and have never been)–but I can go by what was disclosed in this chapter. I would definitely agree with Curtis' "fear of failure" being the main thing for men. For women, I think it's more of "fear of inadequacy" (in any and every way we could view ourselves to be inadequate). I do see a lot of similarities in men's and women's insecurities as well–especially as it pertains to wanting to control so (we believe) we'll feel more secure.
3) I also am mixed on this answer. As far as divine attributes being what I cherish most about my Heavenly Father, I would say omnipotence–because as time goes by, I'm aware that only He is able to make what seems impossible from a human perspective to come true.
But as it pertains to my insecurities, I would say omniscience. I have gotten myself into lots of problems over the years with a sometimes nearly insatiable desire to know everything about someone…I have excused it even with the super "spiritual" reason so that I would know how to pray more intelligently, but honestly (when I have said it at least) it's more me just wanting to feel more in control because I know all there is to know about a person. As if I can somehow micro-manage someone because I know EVERYTHING. I find myself sometimes being offended/hurt when I feel like someone is witholding information from me (when in reality it's not something I truly need to know.)
I didn't comment last week, but wow, Chapter 9 was amazing. God has truly given you the words, Siesta Mama, to speak His truth to our hearts. Blessings on you and everyone at LPM for your ministry to us!
And thank you for helping us face the ugly truth about our insecure selves (even when a couple months ago I would have told you I was NOT and insecure person!) š God knows just what I need…and right now, it's SLI! š
I've never considered them gods or devils. There are a lot of great guys out there. I just happen to draw the wrong one because of my (former)insecurities. (In Jesus Name.)
Omnipotence is my issue. I know the freedom in Christ and want to share it with family who wants no part of it. My zeal without knowledge has got me into a lot of trouble. I know that we are not be unequally yoked in marriage and relationships. When there is emotional abuse in marriage how do admit/realize that you married a devil. In loving your mate unconditionally, does that mean accepting the abuse. I know this is not true. How do you get past it and not wait for the shoe to drop everytime. God is for marriages and wants restoration. However, He is not going to force himelf on anyone.
Men and Women have security issues. Each just manifest them in different ways.
P.S. I thought the same thing as "Not so little dutch girl" My song is F.I.Y.A. by James Fortune the initals stand for Free In Yahweh's Abundance
@Stacy:
I wanted to share a verse that particularly touched me recently.
"The whole of creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth as it awaits its final redemption from the effects of the fall." ~Romans 8:22
Back in November, I was reading from a book called Blessing Your Husband by Debra Evans. After quoting Romans 8:22, Mrs. Evans goes on to say, "Though it is easy on difficult days to forget our ulimate goal, our labor and groans are deeply productive where God's eternal purpose for us is concerned. 'For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:17-18' "
The symbolism of childbirth in the Bible is not a common sermon topic, but there it is, an answer to the question of suffering and a picture of our salvation, put into words that only a mother (A WOMAN) could fully understand. That's just an awsome thought, isn't it, that God is speaking specifically to WOMEN who have gone through the pains of childbirth? Just picture the whole of creation groaning in the midst of labor, and then that final moment when the child arrives and there is instant and complete relief, and overwhelming joy. Our labors are over, our sinful natures are gone, along with all the pain (AND INSECURITIES!)that accompany them. Amazing! And not just us, but someday "the whole of creation" will feel that relief. Don't you long for that day?
Melissa
Married
30's
Virginia
Sharen
Georgia
50's
Single
1. It was easy to answer this one, as gods, because they can do all things. But, that thinking is wrong because only God can do all things.
2. The differences that I see are that men hve insecurities based on what they do and women have insecurities based on who they are.
3. This was an easy one because I have battled control issues all my life. So many things seem out of control so I put a tight grip on those things that I can control. Never looked at it as usurping God's omnipotence, however. Thanks Beth for the insight.
1. I used to view men as devils until I met my husband. Since he wasn't a devil I viewed him as a god. I learned a few years ago that it's not fair to either one of us for me to keep him on that pedestal. Since then, it's been much better to simply see my husband as a fellow human, and the only One on a "pedestal" now is Jesus.
2. Men's insecurities seem to be based on performance, and women's seem to be based on appearances.
3. First, let me say that the part about women playing the devil is very eye opening to me. I have two wonderful, spiritually and morally grounded sons. I intend to share your insight about this type of woman with them. You expressed it so well, and I believe they will appreciate the wisdom of your words.
In Chapter 11 I mostly related to the omnipotent part. I hadn't realized until now that much of my security is based on God's word, so my natural tendency was for others to fall in love with it as deeply as I have. I have been very disappointed when they don't jump in with me and study or appreciate the things God has shown me. I'm asking the Lord to help me see if I've been trying to push "my way" of doing things, in order to make myself feel more secure.
For Anonymous @ 8:44PM-
You make me worried! You are NOT invisible. You've been heard.
It can be discouraging to see others around you seem to leap like beautiful gazelles through life- while the rest of us are like clumsy fawns just trying to get our legs steady under us- never mind leaps. But you are cherished, fearfully & wonderfully made, and serve a divine purpose for your Creator! Praying for you…
gods. i thought a man would be what would make me happy. if only i clung to Jesus and His love..if i had placed my SECURITY IN HIM…i would not have thought my security could be found in a husband because IT CANT…
heading home to Australia tomorrow with 2 of the 4 kids…please pray for a safe journey…so happy i can continue with the study from there.
Monica 30s
m w 4 kids
toronto, canada (transplanted aussie)
I have found these questions to be a bit tricky for me to answer this week. I have had some set backs this week with my insecurity issues. Didn't pass all the spiritual attacks with flying colors. I am so thankful to at least know it is insecurity and how I can get back on track. I have read Chapter 11 the part about omnipotence at least 3 to 4 times. This has really hit home. It is still very tender to me. God is really working in my heart and showing me that I need to get out of His way and let Him do the work that I have been trying to do for so long. It hasn't worked anyway. "…at the end of the day, people do what they want to do." This was great insight for me.
Oops forgot:)
Kim
North Carolina
Married
40
Barbara
30's
New Orleans, LA
married
This is part two because I forgot something. I read ahead and I went back and saw something related to this topic.
When Mrs. Beth (sorry if I am offending you; I just grew up like that)stated when a man has set his heart to be righteous a woman can be a devil to him. Vice Versa
My husband is like that. I don't get it. He would rather have me do something wrong (my perception) than be in the word. It seems like the more interested I became the worst he got.
He was ok with me going to church every week, but when I became serious about walking the walk he couldn't handle it. There are things in our marriage that God wanted to address. He wanted status quo. In my Masterwork study of Daniel, I know Mrs. Beth says a woman can feel superior to her husband because she is seeking God and he is not. I can see how it can be perceived that way. However, if the spouse is not ready to receive Christ anything his wife does will set him off. (vice versa)
please pray for me. I have so much information that I don't know how to appy it (WISDOM).
To anonymous @ 8:10 am March 20th,
I'm praying for you! I SO know how you feel and have been there myself. Keep praying for God to bring that friend into your life. I'm finding mine, I think, through a Sunday School class. God is there even when we feel so alone! You are NOT invisible to HIM!
Karen
Single
40's
Dover, NH
1. I have historically seen men as devils. I have been badly hurt by insecure men. But over the last 5 years God has educated me on the insecurities of men and this has allowed me to be more compassionate and forgiving.
2. I think you hit this just right when you said that men's insecurities cause them to withdraw but women's insecurities cause them to cling. That is what I've observed.
3. I use to have the issue of omnipotence and still fight with this from time to time. I use to want to change people especially if I thought I had the answers they needed. Instead of pointing them to God, I would act like God's messanger for them. I have learned, however, that that does not work. They have to want to change and to want to bring God into the process. My role is to pray for them.
Thank you Tickledpink4u. God really used you just now to encourage me.
What I am discovering as one of my BIG insecurities is that after I have written something from my heart and pushed SEND or even worse, spoken it to a group that I then spend the next 24 hrs fretting over who I might have offended, did I come off as selfish in saying what I did, was I misunderstood – did I miscommunicate my heart and make someone else look bad? did I hurt someone more than I helped? etc etc. If ever I speak to a group I can always count on not sleeping that night as I recount everything I did wrong. UUGGGHHH – isn't that crazy – honestly who cares or even remembers–but it really messes with me for the next day or so. So much so that I always think – okay I am going see this thing (study, agreement, whatever) through and then I'm not committing to ANY other "up front" thing so I won't be scrutinized.
That is one of the main reasons I am reading this book. Oh how I hope God speaks to this issue for me in this book.
So with that in mind – you guessed it- I have worried all day that my comment would not be well rec'd, that maybe it would be misunderstood and so I just logged back on to see if anyone was offended and maybe left a harsh msg back for me (and I know how sweet this group is but even still that is how my mind works). So when I saw your comment I almost cried at how kind it was. He used you to encourage me today. Thank you so much.
Well, my next stop after checking here was to go back to look for the post where we were suppose to share our insecurities but I guess I just did.
40's
married
and as anonymous as possible because-you guessed it -in case anyone is offended with me!:{
This is my first post comment, Beth I love the book. God has dug up some roots…..
I have a long history of abuse so
I would view men as gods until I got them, then they became devils. Everytime. I'm now on my third marriage and God is teaching me how to veiw my man as human with a Divine God inside.
I am ashamed to say I suffered from both omnipotence and omniscience. MAJOR. God is still delivering me from both and slowly but surely there has been progress over the years. Praise His Name!
Adrienne
Married
40
Dear Rebecca: in reading your post, I'm sorry you're hurting. Just a couple things to keep in mind: any time you're tempted to go the "what if" route –be aware there's no such creature. And also, on that note, "what if" leads seemingly innocent questions into painful criticisms of self and others.
I am convinced God has better things in His plan for you. Immerse yourself in His word when you feel a moment of uncertainty. Go back to the 3/6/10 of verse postings. Remember Psalm 23:1-> The LORD is my Shepherd, I shall not want… put your name in that verse.
Sweetie, the LORD is YOUR SHEPHERD, so tell the enemy of your soul you have everything you need thru your Shepherd and you don't want what (the enemy) is tempting you with –now or ever!!!!
Lastly, keep in mind that there may be a limit to the # of tickets that church is allowed to offer to their congregants, leaving the rest for others from other churches…
From Beth's Believing God Bible study: God is Who He says He is; God can do what He says He can do; you are who God says you are; you can do all things THROUGH CHRIST; God's Word is alive and active in you. So you can shout at the enemy of your soul: I'M BELIEVING GOD!!!!!!!!!
You're in my prayers.
Diane
40
Ogden, Ut
divorced
Rebecca: just a P.S. –I believe in faith that God's Word -Christ- is alive and active in you.
Any time the enemy tries to get you thinking about "well what if…" just say "so what! God's Word is alive and active in me!" and sing a praise song to God who loves you like crazy!!!!
Keep seeking Him.
Have you read Jeremiah 29:11 lately?!
God bless you!
Diane
1. Both, honestly. Putting them on too high a pedestal, then getting too angry at them for failing to be God.
2. I would say men's insecurities are generally less obvious to everyone around them, but men fear failure and women fear abandonment. "Fear not, My child, I'm with you always" seems to be the answer to both our deepest insecurities.
3. YES! I was highlighting every sentence on the omniscience section – the struggle with wanting to know it all. One of the stories was strikingly familiar, and what you said about "eating from the wrong tree" was a great revelation!
Lindsey
Jenks, OK
Single, 20s
1. I view men as both a god and a devil. As a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, I tend to have a love/hate relationship with men. I crave adoration, attention, and acceptance from men so much that Iām willing to do just about anything to get it. When I am interested in someone, I think about him constantly, I rationalize all of his weaknesses, and I try to take control of the situation by trying to solve his problems so he will like me. After Iāve hooked a man, I unconsciously begin to tear him down and make him feel weak in order to test his strength. By doing this, I have caused many men a ton of long-term deep pain. In addition, I even pushed one man so far that he retaliated with domestic violence.
2. By far the biggest difference I see between men and womenās insecurities is that men tend to withdraw and women tend to cling. In addition, women are more likely to make fools out of themselves, stop functioning, continuously beat themselves up about it, and hold on to it. Men seem to be able to function with the insecure thoughts, they arenāt driven to do foolish things, and they rarely talk about their insecurity (to the point that I didnāt even realize that they are insecure).
3. As I indicated above, I tend to tear men down out of my personal insecurity to not trust men to treat me well. One of the biggest ways I do this is to gain control over the situation through omnipotence. I like to make myself look strong, wise, and smart so many of the men that I date are people who are beneath me. Then I unconsciously change them into the ideal person that I want to date. They tend to put me on a pedestal and strive to be perfect in order to please me. As Iām sure you can imagine, this usually leads to a destructive relationship where both people are deeply hurt. š
Itās not easy to admit that I have these horrible patterns. This book has helped me to see how very wrong they are, and to PRAY each day that God will deliver me from this awful behavior. I know that bringing the patterns into the light will allow Godās healing to take place.
Thank you ladies for your prayers and encouragement. I have been feeling incredibly hopeless. The analogy of the gazelles was so accurate. I know feelings aren't reliable but it's hard not to react to them. Your prayers mean more than you know. Thank you.
Anonymous 8:44
1. I see men as gods. I put them in a place of superiority and myself in a servant's place. I use to be very intimidated by men.
2. I didn't think men had insecurities — they hide them well! In reading their stories/comments, I now understand that they use different coping skills.
3. Problem with omniscience — wanting to know too much, and then sorry I asked! Once you know the information, it's very difficult (if not impossible) to forget. As the saying goes … be careful what you ask for.
Cathy, 40s
Houston, TX
Married
Jaime
30s
Married
Colorado
Today is my daughter's 14th birthday. We spent last night in the emergency room and they are sending us for "further testing" today, Sunday. The word Leukemia came up and the doc told us to keep that at the front of our minds. O, ladies, I could use your prayers!
She feels a little frightened and she's upset that this is how her birthday turned out. I told her that we are in the Hands of the Father right now. That phrase has never made me feel so secure before. I can feel my Rock steadying me. It made me think of the JJ Heller song Your Hands.
Thank you
Jaime
Kathie
30's married
Michigan
1. I guess I leaned more towards seeing men as gods, but I feel like I have been pretty neutral in my view of men all along.
2. The part where you wrote about how men withdraw when they feel insecure and women want to talk is so true in my life! I didn't realize that was how men deal with insecurity, but now that I know, I can react better to my husband when he withdraws.
3.Um, the paragraphs on omnipotence pretty much had my name all over them. I like order, things to be in control, if someone else could just do it right I wouldn't have to do it… and the paragraph where you talk about Keith and how you just wanted him to be happy (pg. 211) is exactly how I felt. I try to help (control) my husband so that he is a better person, is happier etc. and I always thought it was a good thing. Now I realize that I only want to do that for myself, not for his sake, but my security because if he were happier or whatever then I would be as well…
And the paragraph that I needed to hear most: "We are not in charge…our loved one is a separate person from us – someone God loves, pursues, and when necessary, chastises. When we try to do God's job, we get in God's way. We are called to cherish, support and pray for others…
Thank you Beth, for this chapter, I need to hear this so much!
1. My father is a wonderful Christian man who was a wonderful loving example of a man. As I got older I met men I made gods and men I would classify as devils but it was very individualized to the circumstances and I never really had a view one way or the other. I view them by how they treat me individually.
2.When men meet men the one of the first questions they ask is "What do you do for a living?" That tells me there is great significance in job/provision. Women usually chat about kids, sales, other women and their schedule….because that's what's significant to them! I think in each situation, it's where both find their value.
3.Omnipotent!I can completely relate to the story about you and Keith and your attempts to make him "happier". I have done the same with my husband in the past and it too was met with resistance. When I let go of the wheel so God could steer, I saw my husband make changes that he WANTED to make. And it was so much more exciting to see Him change because he wanted to and not just to get me to shut up! God is a much better driver than me.
Oh my golly!
Chapter 11 resonated with me in a way that I didn't expect.
Thank you for this thought provoking chapter.
1. I really don't think that I viewed men as gods or devils. I definitely looked up to my dad because he always gave me positive affirmation. He made me feel good about myself regardless of the circumstances.
3. Omnipotence all the way! I am a control freak and I cannot stand myself for being this way!I have the gift of "helps" and a lot of the time I will try to help whether you want my help or not!
I'm determined to change and willing to do whatever it takes for God to accomplish this in me! I'm not kidding….whatever it takes! Yielding to Him is my new theme! Thank you so much Beth!
Single
50