Melissa’s Theological Wrestling Match: Reverence for God Revisited

A few months ago I wrote a blog called “Keeping it Real and Reverence for God”.  There I admitted that even though I resonate with my generation’s passion for spiritual authenticity, I find myself uncomfortable with some of the crass and colloquial statements that we sometimes use to express our feelings of anger or confusion toward God.  It wasn’t just a coincidence that I had just finished reading Leviticus and gotten the feeling that perhaps many of us had forgotten the awe-inspiring nature of the God at whom we are hurling these comments. I made the following statement there that summarizes the tenor of my blog-post:

“The hard truth is that we are going to endure times that we feel God is absent or even that He is forsaking us in a certain situation but we should be careful how, when, and to whom we verbalize it. Perhaps, in smaller matters that mostly have to do with out distrust in God, we may need to repent of our unbelief.  In matters of great disaster that leave our heads completely spinning in devastation, perhaps we should first confess our anger and grief in our personal prayer lives or maybe even with an individual and very trusted accountability partner.  He obviously knows when we are angry with Him, so we should confess this to Him, plead with Him, and pour out our hearts to Him in truth, butmust we always publicly express our displeasure toward God?”  

I tried to make a distinction between comments we make to God privately in prayer or whatnot and what we say to God or about God in a public forum (for example, a blog or a sermon, etc).  And then I made a qualification that I hope you caught.  I said, “Perhaps you have better answers and solutions than I do.”  This was my attempt to warn you that I even though I felt fair enough warrant to say what I did, I also knew there was much more to the story. 

And there is. 

And I’ve been doing a lot of reading in that direction because I never want to get too stuck in my theological viewpoints that I miss out on allowing Scripture to knock down my tightly held interpretations.  I think sometimes we search Scripture in order to look for support on viewpoints we already maintain, when we really should expect Scripture more often than not to confront and destroy those viewpoints- after all, we are human and we’ve been wrong before, right?  So we can be wrong again.  I have on occasion seen people maintain viewpoints that are so obviously contrary to what Scripture says in effort to defend a position that they have held for many years.  To see this sort of behavior firsthand is astonishing.  It is also one of my greatest personal fears.  So I did more study because I felt there was more depth to this tension that we experience as Christians- this tension of fearing and showing reverence to God while at the same time maintaining confidence to approach Him and voice our despair and unbelief to Him.

In addition to looking through some of Jeremiah, the Psalms, Job, and Lamentations, I’ve read two things that have caught my attention lately: a book called “The God I Don’t Understand: Reflections on Tough Questions of Faith” by Christopher J.H. Wright and an article called “If God is Good and Sovereign, Why Lament?” by Nicholas Wolterstorff (published in Calvin Theological Journal 2001).  Both of these publications have me thinking a whole lot about the literature that reflects a voice of protest and lament in the Bible itself.

So, What is Lament?

To use Wolterstorff’s explanation “The lament, at its heart, is giving voice to the suffering that accompanies deep loss, whatever that loss may be.  Lament is not about suffering.  Lament is not concerning suffering.  Lament does not count the stages and try to identify the stage in which one finds oneself.  Lament is the language of suffering, the voicing of suffering.  Behind lament are tears over loss.  Lament goes beyond the tears to voice the suffering.  To voice suffering, one must name it- identify it.  Sometimes that is difficult, even impossible.  The memories are repressed so that the suffering is screened from view.  Or one is aware of it, in a way, but in naming it, identifying it for what it is, would be too painful, too embarrassing.  So one resists.  Then, one cannot lament.  One suffers without being able to lament.  Lament is an achievement.   Lament is more, though, than the voicing of suffering.  The mere voicing of one’s suffering is complaint, not lament.  Lament is a cry to God.  This presupposes, of course, that lament is the action of a believer” (42-43).

Wright also made a comment that hit me in between the eyes.  I hope you will read it all the way through:

“In the Bible, which we believe is God’s Word, such that we find in it is what God wished to be there, there is plenty of lament, protest, anger, and baffled questions.  The point we should notice (possibly to our surprise) is that it is all hurled at God, not by his enemies but by those who loved and trusted him most.  It seems, indeed, that it is precisely those who have the closest relationship with God who feel most at liberty to pour out their pain and protest to God- without fear or reproach.  Lament is not only allowed in the Bible; it is modeled for us in abundance.  God seems to want to give us many words with which to fill in our complaint forms as to write out thank-you notes.  Perhaps this is because whatever amount of lament the world causes us to express is a drop in the ocean compared to the grief in the heart of God himself at the totality of suffering that only God can comprehend” (50-51).

And then he says something even more striking:

“It surely cannot be accidental that in the divinely inspired book of Psalms there are more psalms of lament and anguish that of joy and thanksgiving.  These are words that God has actually given us.  God has allowed them a prominent place in his authorized songbook.  We need both forms of worship in abundance as we live in this wonderful, terrible world…I feel that the language of lament is seriously neglected in the church.  Many Christians seem to feel that somehow it can’t be right to complain to God in the context of corporate worship when we should all feel happy.  There is an implicit pressure to stifle our real feelings because we are urged by pious merchants of emotional denial, that we ought to have “faith” (as if the moaning psalmists didn’t).  So we end up giving external voice to pretended emotions we do not really feel, while hiding the real emotions we are struggling with deep inside.  Going to worship can become an exercise in pretence and concealment, neither of which can possibly be conducive for a real encounter with God.  So, in reaction to some appalling disaster or tragedy, rather than cry out our true feelings to God, we prefer other ways of responding to it.

It’s all part of God’s curse on the earth.  

It’s God’s judgment. 

It’s meant for a warning.

It’s ultimately for our own good.

God is sovereign so that must make it all OK in the end” (52).

And then comes the real clincher.  Wright says, “But our suffering friends in the Bible didn’t choose that way.  They simply cry out in pain and protest against God- precisely because they know God.  Their protest is born out of the jarring contrast between what they know and what they see” (53).

Wolterstorff gives two main parts to a lament: First, lament is a cry to God for deliverance:  “Deliver me, O God, from this suffering” (see Psalm 22:19-21a as an example).  Second, lament is a cry to God of “Why? “Why, O God is this happening?” (Psalm 22: 1-2 as an example) I don’t understand it…I cannot discern your hand in this darkness” (44).  It is crucial as believers in Christ that the “the cry occurs within the context of the yet of enduring faith and ongoing praise, for in raising Christ from the dead, we have God’s word and deed that he will be victorious in the struggle” (52). 

Now I’ve never uttered a lament in my life.  I’ve complained, don’t get me wrong but I’ve never composed or verbally expressed something of my own in the form of a biblical lament.  If I am to be honest, I must admit that my personality tends to want to err on the side of reverence for God and unwavering trust no matter the horror of the situation rather than choose the route of raw authenticity.  I don’t say this to boast, for I am obviously numbered among those “pious merchants of emotional denial” who lay pressure on people to stifle their real feelings that Wright so eloquently rebukes.  And I am openly grappling with Wright’s words.  I think he may be right about me.  Just like those who I think have stepped over a boundary and offended God in their attempt to be “authentic”, I think in my attempt to “reverence” God I may have been emotionally aloof and callous toward real human suffering.  In this I have ignored my own Savior’s haunting words, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?”  Over the past few weeks of studying lament and protest in the biblical text, I’ve felt a humanness that I don’t always feel.  I haven’t felt as dismissive of suffering or brokenness.  I feel a little more in touch with reality.  So this is me being theologically vulnerable with you today.  And it ain’t easy.

Now back to our previous issue- the paradox.  The paradox is something like this- we have confidence to voice our despair and our confusion to God but at the same time we must remember to whom we speak.  Now in this blog post I am trying to come clean that I may have swung too far on the pendulum, but there is of course the polar opposite extreme.  There are a couple of passages that draw a line for us concerning our protests and laments to God that I think we must keep in mind.  Psalm 73 is a passage that often gets my attention.  The Psalmist Asaph compares the righteous and the wicked and he despairs that the wicked are carefree and prosperous.  Why do the faithful exert so much energy when there is no advantage for them over the wicked?  He then lets us in on something- he wouldn’t speak this out loud to others because he knows he would betray God’s children. He refrained from speaking disturbing words to the people of God because he knew they could cause serious and perhaps lasting damage.  This is profound.  In addition to Psalm 73, there is a fascinating passage in Jeremiah where Jeremiah says something absolutely SHOCKING:            

“You understand, O LORD; remember me and care for me.  Avenge me on my persecutors…When your came, I ate them; They were my joy and my heart’s delight, For I bear your name, O Lord God Almighty…Why is my pain unending and my wound grievous and incurable?  Will you be to me like a deceptive brook, like a spring that fails?” (Jer. 15:15-17)

 Okay, so Jeremiah has just asked God why his pain is unending even though he has lived faithfully and in painful isolation for God’s very name, and then he says to the Lord, “Will you be to me like a spring that fails?”  This is bold, Jeremiah, very bold.  This is Scripture, mind you, and I am getting uncomfortable.  God then says:

“If you repent, I will restore you that you may serve me; if you utter worthy, not worthless, words, you will be my spokesman” (Jer. 15:19).

Here God’s words to Jeremiah show that even though we have a voice with Him, there is a line that we can cross when we protest and lament.  Jeremiah may need to watch his mouth at this point.  The Lord has deemed Jeremiah’s words to be worthless, though of course He allows him the opportunity to repent.  There are boundaries to our protests.

The point of this blog was to take you through a theological journey I am going through- one of dealing with the paradox of the Christian life.  As Wolterstorff pointed out in his essay, there have been many in our theological tradition resistant to following the biblical writer’s example and fully partaking in lament (Augustine, Aquinas, and Calvin are just a few examples).  And they had their reasons.  Some of them are pretty good reasons.  For example, Calvin would have voiced his suffering but would not have cried out “Why?” since he believed he knew the answer to that question: suffering is sent from the hand of God for our good.  As Wolterstorff says, “We must choose, then, between the massive weights of our theological tradition, on the one hand, and following the psalmist and permitting ourselves to lament, on the other.  Should we choose against the tradition, that choice must not be quick, or glib…We must know what we are doing when we make the choice; we must realize the consequences” (50).  Wolterstorff who wrote in the wake of the early death of his own son chose to lament but he is careful to caution us to make our choice intelligently.

Be assured- these are theological questions and I know they’re tough.  These are questions concerning how we apply and interpret biblical texts, whether or not we feel that we have the freedom to speak in the same way the biblical authors spoke.  And if we believe we do have that freedom, then just how far is too far?  Where is the line?  So, faced with the paradox and the promise that some amount of pain is inevitably coming your direction- how will you respond?  Will you swing toward the direction of refusing to verbalize your deepest questions and uncertainties or will you lament like the Psalmist or like the prophet Jeremiah?  And beyond that, do you think lament should be used more commonly in corporate worship contexts?

As far as I am concerned these are very difficult questions without any simple answers, but this doesn’t keep me from asking you where you stand in the midst of all of this and what insight you may have. 

Praise the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph; the God of David, Solomon, the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, Peter, and Paul.  Praise the God who carries His people through a dark and broken world and grants us bright hope for an everlasting tomorrow.  The God who will one day light the beacons of heaven, sound the trumpets, and until that great day scatters glimpses of triumph for us through all the tragedy. 


200 Responses to “Melissa’s Theological Wrestling Match: Reverence for God Revisited”

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  1. 151
    His grace is sufficient. says:

    Melissa thanks for sharing this thought provoking post. Until I had something to really lament about I would have been one of those that said you can’t talk to God that way.
    But when you bury a child, you ask God why and even become angry with Him.
    There was a period of several months when the only thing I could tell Him was ” I am so mad at You right now.” Then I came to the point of begging Him for “the healing Balm of Gilead”. God is big enough to handle your grief and your anger, Then to heal your heart.
    I have been through several more trials through the years and have lamented through them all. Yet God is Faithful, Merciful and His Grace is Sufficient through everything that has come my way.

  2. 152
    Amye Jo says:

    Melissa, this is an area that is so untouched, i think b/c it can be so uncomfortable for people. We have been going through a very difficult ordeal since the birth of my daughter 16 months ago. It was a traumatic birth that has resulted in cerebral palsy. This has been devastating to our family. One of our biggest fears as parents is that something will happen to our children and that nightmare has come true for us. Medical problems are an ongoing daily issue for us here. The thought of putting all of that aside and putting on a pretend “happy face” at church seems impossible to me. Thank you for giving words and a voice to authentic worship. I can’t pretend I am not devestated anymore than I can pretend there is nothing wrong with my little girl. We have poured out ourselves to God over and over and we have also asked “Why?” I too feel as though there is a line we can cross that goes too far when we hurl angry quips at our pure holy omnipotent God. We have poured over Lamentations, Job and the Psalms and have found words there to lament our grief and suffering to God. I have to admit I have also bordered on the very angry. We are still moving through a process here and are trying to deal with all these thoughts, emotions and feelings. Thank you for your thoughts on this and the Biblical references and commentary for us to meditate on.

  3. 153
    WOW says:

    Just joining in on this one a few days late…much to think about! My pastor is a Calvinest to the core, and a deep thinker like you Melissa! We are doing Daniel in our WOW group and we asked him to give the perspective of end times so that we can be sure to be well informed of our church’s or denominational stand. When I turned around to see how the women were receivng his message, “deer in the headlight” look may not be strong enough words! I am learning to appreciate you very intelligent deep thinkers…here is my stab,simply stated as I am simple…I do believe that we must be able to be honest and real before our God. We are told to come boldly before His throne, and I believe He wants us to bring everything to Him. If we are truly thinking it, give it to Him, speak it out loud with the understanding that He will answer our cry! I am one who tends to think that even though I do not understand, I know that He knows the purpose and He is sovereign and all things work for His good and perfect plan.

  4. 154
    bethany says:

    Dear Sweet Melissa,

    I absolutely LOVE to read your posts….you are such a deep thinker who always presents an opportunity for us to think critically about our walks with the Lord. I thank you dear sister for your passion in this!
    For this post…my goodness….I am mulling over some of the things that you said as well as the quotes that you used. Lament is important I think. I’m not sure what I think yet…still need to process. But you touched a few nerves that are requiring me to re-evaluate my tendancy to engage in complaining about my life. Challenging and spurring me on toward godliness.

    Blessings to you today!


  5. 155
    Anonymous says:

    Wow!!!!! Melissa you have touched on many subjects that need to be discussed in the Christian church today. So many times we think we are not supposed to ask God why or tell him how we are really feeling, but is that not a form of doubt,distrust, or lack of faith? Do we think God can not handle our laments? Thank you for clarifying the difference between complaining & lamenting. I think I have certainly done more of my fair share of complaining to GOD, but I also think that I have mistaken lamenting for complaining.

    Good stuff!!!

  6. 156
    Anonymous says:

    Thank you for writing this article that can applied in daily life.

  7. 157
    Anonymous says:

    You know what freaked me out the last time I read Job? It was realizing that many of the statements in Job that are easiest to agree with are the ones made by Job’s friends. Having accepted the complete sovereignty of God, we are all desperate somehow to acquit him of malice and mismanagement even if we have to do it at someone else’s expense. So, Job’s friends voice some of the most quotable verses in the book. Then you get to the end of the book and find that not only is God not flattered by their arguments, He is actually angry with them and declares that they have not spoken of Him what is right as his servant Job has. The reader is left at the end to ponder the fact that a good bit of the book has been spoken by unreliable narrators – arguments laid out for us only so God could deny their validity. Somehow, Job’s laments were more righteous than his friends’ apologetics.

    Let me be humbled to the dust that I am in remembering that God may be more pleased with my grief than with my efforts to explain away His role in the tragedies I experience.

  8. 158
    coffeepuppy says:

    Thanks for sharing this! Definitely something this one little girl believer needed to hear on this day. Praise the Lord!

  9. 159
    Faith says:

    Wonderful, wonderful food for thought. Thank you for your thoughtful reflection and vulnerability. For me, I do lament … I find that when I hold things in and don’t voice them to God, I experience a block in my relationship with Him. I have to be honest, in private, but I do try to do it with fear–“God, I KNOW this is wrong, but …” or “God, I want to trust You right now but I’m struggling because I feel abandoned by you right now,” etc. I find that often, just giving voice to those thoughts takes the power away, and provides a breakthrough back into intimacy with God.

  10. 160
    Melissa says:

    Anonymous, I wish you wouldn’t have remained Anonymous because your insights on Job were incredibly insightful- and I would have wished to link to your blog or at least to see if you have a blog. Thanks for leaving a comment either way, though!

  11. 161
    Sarah Dixon says:

    Isn’t the point of grace that we have COMPLETE freedom and security in our relationship with our Father?

    If we are totally forgiven, totally acceptable, totally secure, and totally loved in Christ, then I can come to him in any way, with whatever I am feeling, and KNOW that he delights in it and is not displeased with me.

    I think that if we know who we are in Christ and therefore know who he is, then we are reverent. Reverence is more about an acknowledgement of the mind about who God is rather than any outward action.

  12. 162
    Anonymous says:

    As Job said, ‘

    Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head, and he fell to the ground and worshiped.
    He said, “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, And naked I shall return there. The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away. Blessed be the name of the LORD.”

  13. 163
    Lindsee Lou says:


    This was so good. And definitely had some great things to ponder. I read it a few times and plan to print it out!

    Girl, you always inspire me to stretch my brain and to really study the scriptures more. Seriously, your knowledge and love for the Word is contagious. I love it! And I totally miss LIT and hearing you teach it almost weekly!

    But really, I love the hard, challenging questions. I used to hate questions like that, and deep converstations, but as I’ve gotten older and developed a deeper relationship with Christ and a deeper knowledge of Him, these types of things so intruige me.

    So, all that to say, thank you for keeping me on my toes!

    Keep it up, sister!


  14. 164
    Sita says:

    To Anonymous on your comment on Job…I just have to tell you that I agree with Melissa..this was incredibly insightful and I will quote this…
    “…Let me be humbled to the dust that I am in remembering that God may be more pleased with my grief than with my efforts to explain away His role in the tragedies I experience….”

  15. 165
    Anonymous says:

    Dear Melissa,
    Your precious Mother must be so proud of you and your piece of literary and spiritual writing offered up on our blog over the quandary of your “Theological Wrestling Match: Reverance for God Revisited.” The depth of this post was deep enough for me to dive into, swim around awhile and not fear hitting my head on the bottom! One time I asked my dear Pastor why we hadn’t had more sermons on the power of the blood of Christ and he said “In our church life, our sermons are about a mile wide and one foot deep!” Well, I’ve not heard anything that compares with the depth of your post on lament, and my head is spinning over it, and I will chew awhile.

    Memories come forth and make it all so real. My own experience with lament comes when life hits hard and ends in death. One experience stands out amoung all the rest. My closest Aunt, who was like a 2nd mother to me and was dedicated and loving Christian, fell into an awful clinical depression and she ended up taking her own life. When the news came, God made sure I was at my Mother’s home, 12 miles from my own home. My Mother reacted with the most horrifying almost animal-like sounding gut-wrenching screams I have ever heard in my life. I was shaken, traumatized and grief-stricken, all at once. I took Mother to her bedroom and we laid down on her bed together, we held on to each other and cried for dear life: “Jesus…Jesus…Jesus”…we lamented with His name over and over, first in screams and terror, then in sobs, finally in quiet hushed tones. As we held each other and rocked back and forth, our litany became a mournful tune of grief and loss. I, a 46-year- old woman at the time; in the arms of my precious 81-year-old mother. There would be no sleep that night, only lamentations…and a sorrow that was beyond description. Our dearest beloved had taken her own life! How could she? She was a Christian. She loved God. But, we knew she was sick, too sick and had lost control to the ultimate point of death. It was inconcieveable and a shock that sent us reeling, right into the arms of the God Who Is. Sometime in the middle of our dark night of the soul, I felt guilty even wording the “Why” as my theology didn’t allow me to question the reasoning’s of The Almighty,His Sovereignty, His control; who was I to question Him…but after the night song of lament, I was stripped bare and I dared. I cried out to God, “Why? God…Why?” As clear as a bell this is what came to me: “I created the destroyer to destroy!” This truth resonated in my soul, like a bell gonging over and over. That word from the Living God set me on my ear…I had heard something I had never heard in my life. He had nothing to do with it. But at that moment the power of the blood of Christ washed over us and we knew what atonement meant. Our lamenting ceased in it’s intensity. I told my precious Mother what God had told me, I ran to the Strongs Concordance and found those very words in Isaiah. With that, by the power of His Holy Spirit, we knew the blood would be applied to my precious Aunt, my Mother’s beloved sister and she would be counted in eternity because of Jesus. Darkness gave way to light, and weeping became joy when we realized because of the blood, we would see her again…in the morning. And that’s the reason for lament, and for joy…These three bear witness on earth, the spirit, the water and the blood, these three agree in one. That is what we experienced and we will never be the same. I am now 61 years old and my precious Mother is 96 and we’ve lived a lot of life, and we’ve got eternity to go!
    “As sorrowful, yet always rejoicing” beloved…and “these three agree in One.”


    Pam Houston
    Buena Park, CA.

  16. 166
    Tammy Nischan says:

    Melissa, Your wrestling thoughts strike so closely to my heart that it nearly takes my breath away. Your mom shared the quote you wrote about in this blog during the minister’s wives’ retreat about “pious merchants in emotional denial” yesterday and it has really had me thinking.

    As a minister’s wives and Christian college professor’s wife, I’ve learned to “stuff down” a lot of my pain through the years. Losing two children (my daughter in 1992, my son just this past November) and continuing to teach a women’s Sunday school class as I journey through my grief….smiling most of the time, crying in private. Hearing “you’re so strong,” and feeling “oh so weak.” Wanting to cry out. And finally doing so on my knees with your mom praying over me. Oh, Melissa, I love your mom so much. And after reading this “wrestling” blog, I love you so much too! Thank you for your questions, your thoughts.

    I have to say that I do believe God wants us to “lament.” I think the joy can come only come after the tears and honesty of our heart’s aching.

    God bless you,
    Tammy Nischan
    Grayson, KY

  17. 167
    katiegfromtennessee says:

    Mrs. Melissa, fascinating post…I have been thinking about these concepts too b/c of the pers. issues that my fert. treatmnts have brought to the forefront that needed to be dealt with-Praise the LORD! I believe there is a balance between disrespecting God by what we say and even think and the idea that we can’t be real with ourselves, others, or God most of all. I’ve found with my own lamentable pain that to pour my heart out to God with a sense of reverence, repentance, and brokeness is most effective, keeping in mind Rom. 8 that nothing can sep. me from His love. He is the Lord. The One in Rev. with fire in His eyes. Very powerful. The Lord of Hosts. We should never forget that. He is also the Lord who chose us to be His own-when we were still sinners-what kind of love is that? Other worldly, set apart, HOLY love. We should go back to scripture just like what you have been doing, and see how the Psalmists, Job, and others who had pain like Hannah, expressed their deep grief to God and go from there, praying for revelation through the teacher of the Holy Spirit. There is a balance, I agree with you on that. Being filled with the Spirit, the flesh should not have control within us, and our interactions w/ others and HIM.

    Super sorry for long post Mrs. Melissa! This topic is profound to me too:)


  18. 168
    Anonymous says:

    Dear Melissa;

    So many of us struggle with the issue you raise. Yet, as someone mentioned, when you read the psalms, you see the lament and almost always, at the end of the passage, the praise. Isn’t lament a voice of submission to God? God knows we have feelings, He created them. I guess I believe in ‘Reverential Lament’. Express to God what we, as children, can express, but remember to whom we are expressing. Also remember that we do not know the end of the trial. I have been through more than ‘my fair share’, but I see the blessing they become in my life. Remembering that takes the edge off.
    Just my thoughts,
    Elizabethtown, KY

  19. 169
    Anonymous says:


    Thank you thank you so much. I do love how deep you go. You have shone me such insight only God ordained. After doing Believing God my prayer has been, I believe help my unbelief. After the loss of my son I have hungered for truth, strength, to overcome pain of the loss, peace that pass all understanding, The love we have for our children has no place to be placed when God call them to their everlasting home we have intense sorry. I think for not knowing what to do with the love that was for that child alone. God showed me and continues to show me many things for his purpose .He has continued to show me two times this year how he is still using his ministry for his glory. Once a visiting pastor was speaking on his testimony not knowing we were attending. He was called to go to the mission field. My heart believe is he is there, working through others as he abides walking with the word made flesh. Praise yo God!
    This year in August God called a young man of 17 years home to walk those streets of gold. This is so humbling to me that he used me. I don’t share often! I didn’t even share with my family till months after. But God would not allow me to continue there. On the Wednesday before this young man was called home I started crying Thursday it became more intense. By Friday it was such a mourning crying but had no reason to be in that state. I knew it was not my loss I was mornings I kept crying out asking God what was wrong with me. Saturday morning around 7:45 the young man dad a Pastor in California called, he told my husband first and then talked to me. He said his son was with my son using there names .God had taken him home Friday night around 11:00, his faith had become sight. Oh God, I new at that moment what had been going on in me. After I got off the phone all day calling out to God lamenting for what this family would endure such unspeakable pain. Suffering for his Glory as afflictions teaches us to walk with God rooted deep as we abide in our hope, our strength our power to press forward through Him. Jesus was sorrowing for what was going to happen through his spirit in me. Oh Lord I don’t even feel worthy to type this out! The awe of my God , I can never doubt him. Lord forgive me for my unbelief. I have been praying with his mom ever other week. She always says she knows not what to do with this sorrow. You have through allowing God to use this wrestling with him for understanding helped so many. I can now also better know how to pray with her. Thank you thank you. Your family has been such a part of the working of my healing because of being faithful to press on teaching admonishing many.
    Love to each of you

  20. 170
    hisfivefooter says:

    I love your transparency and your obvious hunger to know truth. Even the truth about yourself, as uncomfortable as it is. I have thought about these things as well, and it seems everyone has a different opinion, which is the point. I don’t want opinion, I want truth, no matter how awful it might be about my complacent and often neglected spiritual thought patterns. I am reading on the life of George Mueller and the wrestling I see in his life as well as Amy Carmichaels, Hudson and others leads me to believe that they have thought long and hard about these things and have come to similar conclusions. Thanks for the thought-provoking post, always a pleasure listening to you.
    Lisa in Kirkland, WA

  21. 171
    Anonymous says:

    thank you so much for your willingness to be so transparent, and also for causing us to use our brain.


  22. 172
    Kasey Ewing says:

    Where can I find a copy of that whole article. I have read his book “Lament for a Son” and loved it. It spoke to us greatly when we lost of our son.

  23. 173
    Nichole's Mom says:

    Timing is excellent. I knew when I saw the title of this post I needed time to read it so I waited until today, and today was when I needed it. I’m truly wrestling with some things right now, and I know that in time everything will come to light and it will all be worth it, but man! When you are standing all alone it’s awfully lonely. So I have been lamenting (whining). I know God has His plans, but I’m covered in flesh and my flesh is protesting! I love you Melissa. Thanks for doing the heavy lifting on this (and lots of other stuff)! I’m glad that’s your part of the body! LOL!

    I love you guys,


  24. 174
    Melissa says:

    Kasey, The article “If God is Good and Sovereign, Why Lament” appeared in Calvin Theological Journal (36) 2001 on pages 42-52. I would go to the nearest theological library and look in the stacks section. Blessings to you.

  25. 175
    sumi says:

    I love the verse where Jesus tells the Samaritan woman at the well that God seeks those who will worship him in spirit and in truth. He WANTS me to have an absolutely real and honest relationship with him, and to speak the truth to him. Lamenting is part of that honest intimacy.

    As long as my heart purely seeks to reach out to him, I really don’t think it will overstep the bounds.

    God knows that I will vent towards him, but he also knows, that as soon as my heart connects with his in honest dialogue, I am overwhelmed by his infinite kindness and mercy, and I cannot help but change my tune. LOL!

    I have known deep pain. My little sweet princess Jenna went to be with Jesus last year at the tender age of three. I remember that the first worship song I latched on to at the time was Matt Redman’s “Blessed be your name”. Matt said he wrote that song as a lament after 9/11.

    So yes, lament can and should be a part of our corporate worhip. Personally, I feel much safer letting it all out in the privacy of my own home though!

  26. 176
    Anonymous says:

    Thank you for this fine and concise piece of research on a very necessary topic of concern for all believers. I enjoyed reading what you have so graciously distilled down for those of us who want a quick word on the blog. I also see the tension in our current day between “authentic” Christianity and living in denial about our true feelings about what God has or has not allowed in our lives. In times of deepest despair I have found peace and comfort in crying out to Him for mercy. I pour out my hurt and then I simply acknowledge that what I’m asking for, not demanding, is MERCY. I have been comforted and strengthened more than once in the midst of a family crisis by praying ever so simply, “Father, please have mercy on me! I beg you, grant me your mercy in this situation.” That simple prayer has been my cry and has been met with such a generous answer from my Father that it would have been impossible to miss. I praise Him for His ongoing mercy to me and mine!
    JoAnn D, Norfolk, VA

  27. 177
    TN Girl says:

    Melissa thanks for thinking the deep thoughts and for sharing with us. I’ve been chewing on this since you posted it. I am definitely not a scholar or theologian.

    In my opinion we are to feel the feelings before God.

    From personal experience as one who has “sucked it up” and “stuffed it down” for most (whom am i kidding) ALL of my life. When you get full it comes spewing out and it ain’t pretty and most of the time you sin in the spewing.

    When we take the thing before God, that doesn’t happen. We deal with it through God. And I think as we are told “not to sin in our anger” we should also apply that to our other emotions.

    My dad was a music minister at a large congregation when he was diagnosed with cancer at the age of 30. Thousands of people earnestly prayed for him to be healed. He died at 31. The senior minister at that chuch lamented publicly my dad’s death before God in his Sunday sermon following his death. He spoke the minds of the congregation with reverence before God. He didn’t draw any big conclusion, he just said we don’t get it God and we are heart broken over it. Feel the feelings.

  28. 178
    Edwards Family says:

    This is written with such love- thank you to our Lord who has obviously put this on your heart. I think this is one of those subjects that the Lord will need to work with me on. I tend to push down all of my emotions and put the happy worship smile on my face. When you spoke of the authenticity of worship when one does this-it stopped me in my tracks.

    Thank you for your love for our Lord and for your obedience to serve Him in this capacity.


  29. 179
    Anonymous says:

    When I was going through my divorce, I devoured the Psalms. The words of the psalmist allowed me to go to God with my pain, my fear, and my brokeness, stripped of any pretense. I approached the throne of God with total honesty and complete freedom because I felt the example had been set for me in Scripture. I still go to God in complete honesty, but with a belief and trust that comes with experiencing His faithfulness and love even when I questioned both.

  30. 180
    Anonymous says:

    I have been in the fire now for 18 months. During this season – I have encountered loss after loss. Death of my father, being the most recent. The timing of things that have happened have left me feeling so along and discouraged. There are times when I feel His hand so heavy on me I cannot seem to breathe. Other times I sense Him telling me to persevere… I don’t even pretend to understand all that God is – but He is my Father. And as my Father, I feel that of all others – He is the One I can be most honest with. Fact is the times i have endured as of late have left me so confused and hurting – I want to live in the light. But I feel as if I am much like David, sitting in a cave running from an enemy he never did anything to. I am so discouraged at times and i feel as if my life is hopeless. I hope that I can come to God and share my hurts because there is asbolutely no one else who can help me where i am or even understand…

  31. 181
    Anonymous says:

    Melissa, i think you’ve hit upon the name for your blog – Melissa’s theological wrestling match- the mtwm blog……even if you only dropped by once in awhile you’ve got all us gals out here awrestlin’ with this “stuff”….i have a feeling i will have more than a hip out of joint by the time i learn His Name….and maybe find out my own at the same time! Keep wrestling for us….hmmmm now do i have to put my money on a winner here….funny thing though Both Sides Win!


  32. 182
    Nicole says:

    loved it!

    after studying leviticus this year as well, i loved this step back and honest examination of motives and perspective.

    just read psalm 90 this morning, and moses was definitely lamenting, despite his unwavering trust. thank you for putting so much time into the words and thoughts of this post.


    p.s. cracks me up that your mom leaves such sweet comments on the post. mine totally would, too:)

  33. 183
    twinkle says:

    Melissa, this post about public lament has been on my heart so often since you posted this. All the comments are treasures in my heart. So much pain exists in our heart that seldom gets expressed publicly.
    It has blessed me so much to think about things I need to express to God about my sorrow over my own sin.
    And I am pausing to lament more often (privately) about my sorrow over the widespread sin in my country. We need to wake up to reverence God in EVERY area of our lives.
    Thank you for posting this.

  34. 184
    Anonymous says:

    Thank you for what you shared. The last time and this. I’ve really struggled over the years. For a long time I couldn’t share my heart with God. I was so broken I thought I couldn’t for fear of being irreverant and I really didn’t know Him. I was a huge part of my healing to be able to share my heart with God. I appreciate how God invites us to go to Him in all circustances. And I appreciate your reminders that in our honesty we can still be reverent. In Jesus’ Love Kathy Knoblock

  35. 185
    GratefulinGA says:

    Wow Melissa, this whole post fits perfectly with our Bible study session today; I must share this with my group. I applaud you for continuing to work on this subject, thank you for striving to keep it real and right, God’s right. You are your Mothers daughter.

    I have been exactly at this sort of crossroads where the rubber met the road with regard to my relationship with God, my faith, but most especially my trust in Him – the death of a child can put you there. In the months following my daughter’s death I spent copious hours pouring through the Word and seeking Gods truths despite my anguish at the assorted possibilities and answers that might await at journeys end – never in my life being more grateful for the Holy Spirits making intercession interpreting moanings and groanings that even I could not put words to.

    Once I started making some sense of my grief, I understood the necessity of being wholly authentic, straight and up front with my Father. I knew I must confess what would not lie hidden in my heart- all with a most reverential fear because oh yes, I never forgot that HE IS GOD Almighty, The Most High, the Great I AM and He also knows every crevice of my being and there was no hiding anything from Him.

    My Bible from that time bares deep scars of highlighted pages, layers of flags and post it notes smeared with tears as I came to terms with it all and grew to love my heavenly Father oh so much more. To lament is a very good thing.

    Using lament in corporate worship…um, not sure. Just having this very topic addressed in the way you have here could have many positive ramifications. Of course you always have those who might take this message within a cooperate setting and swing out to those furthest points in the pendulum.

    Have sure missed reading the blog, what an excellent point of reentry!
    Much love,

  36. 186
    Anonymous says:

    Way to go Melissa! I applaud your transparency and deeply appreciate the amount of research you did and time you spent in the Word to get this to us…So we can ponder it too. Great blog! Keep it up sister.

  37. 187
    Aunt J - DM, IA says:

    Melissa – You sweet thing!
    My best friend and I have been discussing this very issue due to some horrible circumstances of abuse. This article is perfect and my reading it today are only of GOD since we will be spending the weekend together and had planned on some bible study time in the great outdoors. I have printed it and we can read it together – search the scriptures you mentioned and maybe find the healing that is so desperately needed. God is good and he used YOU in this situation. Bless you Melissa.

  38. 188
    Anonymous says:

    I love what Simone Weil says about suffering — where she reflects that one of the names that God is known by – is the human cry… the groans that words cannot express, our anger, suffering, loss – finding expression in words, and at times not in words. But what fascinates me here in your research and my own study — that like the child who wants to be comforted by their Mother – to cry in her presence, so the Biblical model of lament shows us the context of relationship. I have been so moved in my life in the presence of those who I knew loved Jesus more than life itself, raising their voice and questions to the heavens…and yet even in the midst of their sorrow, and with anguish in their voice, closed their prayer…”And yet Lord, even in this “Blessed be the name of the Lord”

  39. 189
    Anonymous says:

    Life is strange but it all comes from the hand of God. All. I speak as a sinner not a Christian. I don’t understand why some He draws to himself and others He does not. I think personally the main thing with God is relationship period. But, my will, our will gets in the way. I want to go my own way and forget God. It is strange how I’ve been in the throws of relationships going awry and then I see the reason. God, wants my attention, God wants me to bow to Him. In the middle I’m tossing on a sea of hurt, bitterness, weirdness and then when it is the right time, His hand reaches for me. Ok, what then, will I do? Do I take His hand or turn it away. The page turns and it’s the next chapter of my life. How strange the tides turn. Even as Job as the anonymous person spoke. It is so easy to blame God and then die. Job, can anyone besides Jesus Christ have been so tormented? How strange. It must be that God so desires our relationship that He intervenes in strange, crazy, hurtful ways for all His creation to look to Him. Strange

  40. 190
    Mar says:

    I had a major breakthrough in my reflections on lament when the Lord quietly asked me one day, “What do you think about the fact that the HOLY Spirit groans?” (Romans 8:26) I had to think about that … when I reach a point that I don’t even know what to pray, the Spirit intercedes for me … with groans, longing for the redemption day. So somehow, there is such a thing as “Spirit-led groaning” and it may even reflect hope and trust rather than unbelief …

  41. 191
    sara says:

    I am convinced that God is pleased with us when we approach Him with total honesty, no matter if we come with joy or lament. He wants the unveiled reality of us. Thank you, Melissa, for sharing.


  42. 192
    Melissa says:

    Robin, your words touched my heart. I hear where you are coming from. Thank you for leaving a comment. Love, Melissa

  43. 193
    Warm in Alaska says:

    Okay, Melissa ~ Spring break is finally over and I am back home and able to think through your post. You asked five questions – but all I could do is recollect an experience I had — hmmmm….. I guess it was 18 years ago while I was working in the oil fields of Prudhoe Bay – at the very tip top of Alaska.

    I had just gone through a major transformational period in my personal walk with the Lord. I was raised in a solid, evangelical home and church – and for that, I will be eternally grateful. But halfway through college, I found myself in arenas (Inter-Varsity group and local church) where I joined in lots of corporate prayer meetings.

    My life changed.


    Other things occurred around the same time: the Bible became alive to me in a way it never had been; I was being richly discipled; I began to teach and lead others in their walk with Jesus; and, on a personal spiritual front – I began, for the first discernable time in my life – to recongize the voice of the Lord.

    Everything changed. No longer did I want to head back to Capitol Hill with a law degree in tow – now I just wanted to be used in ministry with others however and wherever the Lord would lead.

    It was two years of rich, overwhelming, experiential interaction with the Lord and with other believers. I loved it – Him, the journey, my Kingdom siblings, and the lost.

    I even ended this stage of my journey with a bit of a bang (not that I planned it that way, but the Lord did) – from late November til Christmas of 1989 I traipsed around Jerusalem, crying out for the Lord to gather His people back to their land. It’s so funny for me in retrospect to consider this time in my life because it truly was just the Lord, me, my Bible (with a big emphasis on Jeremiah and Ezekiel) and a boatload of Nescafe (Israeli’s coffee of choice). Oh, and faith. Faith that what God had said in His Word, He actually meant.

    Then 1990 came, and almost on January 1, as if on cue, this rich season of Presence and power and favor – seemed to change. It was odd and off-putting and confusing and quiet.

    I did the only thing I could think to do – I kept praying and investing myself in the Word and in the lives of those around me. The corporate times of prayer were now mostly individual times because I was back home in Alaska – and working up on the North Slope (not a place known for its evangelical fervor!)

    And as I read and prayed my way through the OT, I finally got into Lamentations. I read along and could feel the cry in my heart join Jeremiah’s cry. All of a sudden I got to verses 19-20 of chapter 3: “I remember my affliction and my wandering, the bitterness and the gall. I well remember them, and my soul is downcast within me” and as I read these verses in my little dorm size room all of a sudden the lights in the room immediately shut off.

    Darkness. All of a sudden.

    I marveled because the words of Jeremiah so echoed what my journey’s words were and had been for months: wandering (but with the Lord – yet still that uneasy restlessness), affliction, bitterness, gall, a downcast soul, darkness.

    I sat in the dark, me and my downcast soul, and I pondered the strange event of the lights suddenly turning off at just the right word to define what I’d been experiencing for months – an afflicted spirit, a soul that was cast down, not lifted up.

    And then, I felt – as clearly as I’ve ever sensed the Lord’s voice, Him prompt me to ask Him to turn the lights back on.

    Oh my gosh. I hate it when that happens – when you’re out there – way, way out there on a limb and you are almost totally sure you’re hearing Him say something – but it’s an “out there” sort of thing and you don’t want to do what you’re thinking He’s saying, and then have it be wrong – although, it was just Him and me, so what’s the harm? But still, I can still feel that queasy stomach feel sitting here, 18 years later, thinking: God, You don’t have to do this, I don’t have to do this.

    And then I thought about it. I thought about how God is the One who keeps every single star in this here universe doing it’s starlike thing, how He makes the sun run it’s course each day, how He Himself is the light of the world, and is it really so outlandish that I ask Him to turn on a 150 watt bulb in my little tiny room? Really, this has to be such a stretch for my faith?

    “God, please turn on the light.”

    And it came on. Immediately.

    And then I kept reading Lamentations 3. Here’s the next verse: “Yet this I call to mind and therefore I have hope: Because of the Lord’s great love…..” and on and on this beautiful, honest, wrenching lament weaves itself – around the truth of God’s compassions and His faithfulness and His hope and His truth.

    And while I kept reading, in the nicely lit room, with tears of gratitude streaming down my face and on to the page I learned something about the journey we’re on. But it was a lesson not learned from words. I had to live the lesson: there is the good, the great, even — and there is the gall; there is affection and attention — and there is affliction. There is beautiful and there is bitterness; there is wonderful and there is wandering.

    There is so much to be lived and learned on these journeys God lets us take – but when all of it, all of it is wiped away – then there is God. God in all of His Incomprehensible Enough-ness.

    I love the highs. I always will. The God is Speaking Right Now and Awesome Things Are Happening moments and stages and seasons.

    But 18 years later when I have now traversed many a valley – and some of them lasted an awfully long time and were truly dark and very lonely, this is what I know: God in His Enough-ness is always More. He’s always More Than Enough (sorry for all the caps, I can’t help myself).

    And that’s what the journey has taught me (among other things), and what lament has taught me.

    Lament brings out all the hidden things that are so often obscured when life is filled to the full with the good. And it’s during the times of walking through the dark, alone times that my ideas on Who God really is and who I really am and what my purpose is – come to light.

    These are the things I call to mind – God always being more than enough for me – and for the world around me – and therefore, I have hope.

    Not sure if this is the response you were after, but thanks for the questions and the opportunity to take a gander around,

    Warm in Alaska.

  44. 194
    Peter Stone says:

    Wow, I loved the distinction you made between grumbling/complaining, and lamenting. And that lamenting is an outpouring of someone who knows God, and is made to God.

    In reverence to God I’ve always been mindful not to grumble and complain, yet when I went through severe depression many years ago, my diary is full of lamentations – all written to God, as I cried out desperately to Him.

    This is one of those laments that I wrote while severely depressed:

    13th May 1990 –
    The Bible says to consider it joy to endure trials,
    I must say that there has been no joy in this trial.
    It defies any previous experience known to me.
    But I’ve been forced to trust God when it seems He has abandoned me.
    I have been forced to come to a place where I have trusted Him without feeling like doing so.
    All I want to do is cry out that He had abandoned me, that He is not faithful.
    But He is faithful. And I know that.
    He is faithful and true. He is Jesus.

    Great job in your expose on this paradox.

  45. 195
    Melissa says:

    Peter, I love that you have on hand a journal entry from 1990. It must be amazing to look back through your life written on a page. You words resonated with me, as well. Thank you for dropping by LPM.

  46. 196
    Anonymous says:

    In my darkest season, I never asked why, I just prayed: “Show me your glory.” I thought it was wrong to ask the question Why…after all, He knows what He is about, so I will trust him.
    But recently, I cried out, “I don’t understand. I just don’t understand.” I still don’t, but I think that may have been a more honest approach to the thrown of grace…thank you for showing me the Word…I feel like I just got permission to approach Him in a new way.

  47. 197
    Kristen says:

    Good job here, Melissa. Makes me think, and I can always appreciate that!

  48. 198
    ginny says:

    I have read your blog regarding “Reverence for God Revisited” several times over not because I couldn’t understand it but rather I wanted to really absorb the essence of what you were trying to express. First before I say anything else I want to say to you KUDOS girlfriend for inspiring me into such a deep thought process on this topic,well done! Now on to the meat and potatoes, so to speak.
    I am someone who had a considerable amount of baggage when I came to Christ Jesus. In my house when I was young I had one parent that was physically and verbally abusive.We use to fight terrible as I got older and tired of being called bad names and hit I would get angry instead of hurt. and I didn’t cry any more.This left some very deep scares I didn’t realize I had. I still deal with some very old and deep seated trust and abandonment issues as well.I realize now that they had issues I was not aware of and that is what made them that way. This little story is probably a good example in answer to your question of crossing the line.
    I was confused about some things I didn’t know what to do about them which, made me frustrated and angry with God. I even went so far as to voice my anger at him privately in my car one day.I call this “throwing myself around” not lamenting.I never gave a thought about consequences. You see I see him as my father and I am his daughter. parents and children have confrontations on occassion. That week at church the sermon our pastor gave was like a personal message to me and it answered one of the things I was confused about. On Monday I felt a nudge to go online and catch a Beth Moore teaching from the Wednesdays with Beth series on Life today. I went into the archives and found the series entitled “What To Do When You Don’t Know What To Do” That teaching answered EVERY thing I was confused and frustrated about. I started to cry because I knew He was showing me that I could trust Him, He showed me that He wasn’t going to call me bad names or hit me.Oh how he showed me his love by doing that. I believe because of something in my past I received GRACE rather than rebuke.
    Since then I feel free to lament and cry to Him. For me I am expressing my feelings to a parent that I know will hear my CRY and respond by bringing me peace and comfort and answers and love. Believe me I cry all the time now, I use to think crying was a sign of weakness,but the Lord showed me it isn’t. When I met your mom during her New England Nights tour she had this past fall,I met her twice, the first time I was crying like a baby she took my hand and kissed it, it was the most compassionate and loving gesture anyone has ever shown me and I will never forget it.
    There is a difference between crying out and complaining. You wrote “Calvin would have voiced his suffering but would not have cried out “Why?” since he believed he knew the answer to that question: suffering is sent from the hand of God.” I don’t believe all suffering is sent from the hand of God.A good example of that is the book of Job. Job was being “sifted like wheat” by the enemy not God. God rebuked him for his complaining, but rewarded him for keeping his trust in the Lord and not cursing him. With the Psalmist Asaph, I think he was lamenting because he felt oppressed in spirit maybe a better way to say it a spirit of oppression over took him. I think the enemy had a hand in that too,and it took his focus away from God for a moment then you see in v 17 he says”till I entered the sanctuary of God then I understood their final destiny” From that point there is nothing but praise. I personally just came through a season of spiritual depression I felt like I was under attack. I cried to the Lord everyday,I went to the Psalms for scriptureI sent in a prayer request to LPs prayer warriors as well as my own church. Everyday I cried out the Lord lifted me but it would be back the next day and he would lift me again and again and again. He showed me a picture in my minds eye. I holding on to His wrist and He was holding onto mine but His hand was bigger and the grip tighter. It was at that point that I felt the release of whatever was oppressing me. I am back to feeling like myself again. I am in the word a lot moreand Praising God. When I read Jeremiah 15:15-17 I read complaints along with a lamenting but truly more complaining. What I think sent God over the edge to rebuke him saying his words were worthless and required repentance is in vs 18 …..”like a DECEPTIVE brook”.he used a word there associated with the enemy, He infers that the Lord could be a deceiver. DECEPTIVE is not a good word to use when referring to God now that is a line crossed and he needed to repent for that. God knows our frailities how we can be distracted, tired,driven by spirits of depression oppression etc. that is why he gave us grace and forgivness and His WORD as a weapon against these things. He could have been a lot harsher with Jeremiah than he was. In a nutshell my answer to your queston is Yes we should verbalize our feelings to him. He is our Hope our Refuge our Strong Tower our Father how can he be all this to us if we can’t call out to him in our suffering and hurts and pain and yes even our complaints. Is there a line that can be crossed? Yes but I think it is a shifting line meaning,the line may differ according to where in our hearts it comes from and how long we have been walking with the Lord.We cannot forget that Gods will isn’t always easy to swallow and sometimes what looks like the worst thing that could happen turns out to be the best thing that could ever happen. That is why he reminds us that his thought process is higher than ours and stop trying to understand everything He does because anything he does is for us because He loves us.I will be perfectly honest here this is easier said than done. I’ll be the first one to say this journey I am on is not easy but I have to have faith in God by believing Him that it will be worth it.. As far a corporate worship,I am more of a keep it private mindset. I think prayer requests at your home church ,counseling with your pastor and and having a trusted friend to talk / lament to and pray with is more appropriate. I hope I have stayed on track with what you were asking.

    Schenectady NY

  49. 199
    Linnet says:

    Melissa, I think there is a difference between questioning God out of a faithless heart. Where as you said with the prophets, they weren’t questioning in a “well, I’m not sure. You’re not working your promises like I thought you would, so if you don’t do your part, I’m outta here.” Rather, they were questioning in the context of surrender. “This isn’t what you said, or what I thought I was signing up for. I feel alone and abandoned by you.”…but the idea of bailing not crossing their minds.

    I’ve seen Christians get pretty uncomfortable with other people’s pain. I feel like our altars have become a place of turning that frown upside-down, when sometimes it needs to be a place of let’s-get-real grief.

    Thanks for your openness even though it is vulnerable.

  50. 200
    bathmate says:

    Impressive and attractive posting. I enjoyed it. I think others will like it & find it useful for them. Good luck with your work. 😉


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