“She’s (he’s) gone over to the experiential side.”
I’ve been accustomed to that terminology since my first Bible doctrine class at 27 years old. The language might be dated for many of you but you get the gist. My teacher (in the presence of the Lord now) whom I loved and whose passion lit a fire in my own bones often used the delineation. Something was either “Scriptural” or “experiential” and ne’er the two could meet. It made perfect sense to me.
For a little while.
I’ve never lost my esteem for my teacher. I could get tears in my eyes just thinking about him. He taught under a powerful unction of the Holy Spirit and with a love for the Bible that I had never seen. I suppose some 90 percent of what he taught me I still believe with all my heart. No one made a deeper investment in my love for the Word of God.
But I’ll share with you the teaching in that first Bible doctrine class that I couldn’t accept for long. I couldn’t accept that a believer must fall cleanly into one category or the other: the Scriptural or the experiential. Of course, that’s why I had critics counting me among the experiential crowd 15 years ago but I’ll be forthright with you. The criticism, no matter how mean-spirited it got, was worth enduring because I was not about to let somebody convince me that Scripture and experience were always mutually exclusive. I wanted them both. I wanted to thrill to the Word of God with everything in me AND I wanted to experience the presence of Christ as palpably as He’d permit me.
I would not deny for a moment that there are people in the wide stretch of Christendom who rely strictly on experience and rarely if ever open their Bibles. I also have no doubt that many study their Bibles but never have what they’d qualify as an “experiential” encounter with the Holy Spirit. But there is another category and it is chock full of people who have devoted their entire lives to the study of Scripture and could also testify to rich experiential encounters with Christ. They are not the either-or’s. They have known both.
They are people who would not dream of giving their experience the same weight as the Scriptures. They know full well that it doesn’t mean everything. But must it mean nothing??
Does the Word of God itself not validate experiencing the presence of God?
Every time the living words of Scripture seem to leap off the page into the reality of our present challenge, are we not experiencing God?
Every time our pastors or teachers bring a word that causes the blood to flow hot through our veins – in the terminology of 1 Thessalonians 1:5 “in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction” – are we not experiencing God?
Every time we are overwhelmed with fresh conviction and we experience true repentance, are we not experiencing God?
In those moments when we’re brokenhearted and bewildered and we suddenly feel embraced by His love and assured of our chosenness, are we not experiencing God?
In our worship when we feel moved inside with the sense that His thick presence around us in that place is a greater reality than anything we can see or touch, are we not experiencing God?
When, after striving and seeking and praying, we suddenly know with astounding clarity what God wants us to do in a situation or relationship, are we not experiencing God?
When we have encounters with people that only God could have ordained and had appointed conversations that become pivotal to our callings, are we not experiencing God?
Was the Holy Spirit Himself not given to us so that we could continue to experience the presence of Jesus on this earth??
And do we not keep our Bibles wide open and study them all our lives and every day so that we can even recognize what could be a valid Holy Spirit experience?
No story I’ve ever told publicly has gotten me in more trouble than the one that occurred in an airport many years ago when I felt a profuse stirring of the Holy Spirit to go over to an old man in a wheelchair and brush his tangled, matted hair. Nothing has thrown me into the “experiential” category with my critics more than that story. But here’s the ironic part: I had my Bible wide open in my lap actively memorizing John 1 at the exact moment the Holy Spirit moved on me to stand up and walk over to that man. In fact, I was nearly annoyed by the inconvenience of having to get up and go serve somebody while I was busy with my memory work. They weren’t two separate things. They were happening simultaneously.
Despite the discouragement that being stereotyped can bring, if I thought I’d “experienced” God for the last time, I’d be ready to pack up this whole earthly existence and go home. I live to experience God – in my Bible study, my worship, my restoration, my personal revival, in the laughter of my family that has endured against all odds, in the burst of color in an autumn sunset, in a praise song blaring from the speakers in my car, in church service after church service, in the love I still feel for one man after 36 years, and in a walk all by myself in the country.
I write these words to you today who have devoted your lives to the study of God’s inspired Word and make it your daily bread. You don’t have to choose between the Scriptural and the “experiential.” You can have a devout study life and esteem the Bible more than any other tangible possession on this earth and you can also validly experience the presence and palpable activity of the Holy Spirit. You don’t need human permission to do so. You have the Bible’s permission.
Don’t let anybody take that right from you.
Amen Siesta!
I would rather die than not have the ability to open my Bible and spend time with God. And it would mean certain death if I couldn’t experience His provision daily…..even in things that may seem absolutely ludicrous to others to attribute them to God, I know He has provided just when I need that extra nudge to keep going.
Amen Beth! I symphoneo with you. The story of you and the man in the airport has given me courage to step out and follow the leading of God on many occasions. In each one I have seen Him work in other’s lives and met Him in a very palpable way. Thank you for sharing it and for being faithful to the call of Christ.
Yes! Amen! Thank you!!
Dear Beth,
Talk about experience! I just mentioned that airport incident to a friend yesterday who’d never heard of you.
I think what I am understanding here is the difference between experiencing and sensing. I worry that if I think I have to “experience” the presence of the Holy Spirit in a firework, sky rocket” type way and it doesn’t happen I am somehow at fault. It doesn’t have to be that way.
You sure didn’t see sky rockets when brushing that poor man’s hair. Same way I don’t see fireworks every time I open my Bible. Some times yes.
Sometimes in my life like at this moment I am moved to tears by how much he is blessing and working in our lives. We have a new grand baby coming. Finally at 65 I am old enough to be grandma!!!
Our daughter got a dream job at the state capital she has worked long and hard for.
A lot of good has happened and I sense the goodness at His hands.
I am writing my first draft of my manuscript. Did we experience God when Brian at age 9 lapsed into a coma after his first chemo treatment at St Marys in Rochester Mn? You bet we did!! I am just writing about that now.
Did I sense the Lord’s presence in the jail cell when I learned my family put me there? You bet I did but not in the way I would explain experience.
Sometimes the Lord wows my flip flops or thick wooleys off (depending alot on the season)when a certain Bible passage speaks to me in a new and different way. Sometimes when singing an age old hymn in an arena of women and we are shouting at the top of our lungs “On Christ the Solid Rock I Stand all Other Ground is Sinking Sand tears flow freely down my cheeks and I thank Him for His presence.
Sometimes though as I have said before I do not sense Him as strongly but I have a quiet confidnece that even though a time will come again where He seems quieter in my life He is there I snese His presence even though I don’t experience Him as distinctly.
I have a gal in a Bible study who pins alot on emotion and there is where she gets into trouble. I am not emotional everytime I sense or experience Him. At times I really can get emotional and I yell loudly or cry softly.
If my emotions are not in high gear that does not mean He is not there I can still sense Him.
Being a melancholic I tend to be more stoic acting than a sanquine Texan but Hey,either way fine with Him!!
Love from Dakota Land!
Betty
Thank you for this, I needed to read this today. Amen and amen.
AMEN AND AMEN!!! It was the experience of God through answered prayer that made me hungry for the Scriptures as a way to get to know the God Who heard and answered me at the lowest point in my life. And never would I be satisfied with one or the other. No Ma’am, I will not let anyone make me choose between Experiential or Scriptural!
YES!!! This is one of my favorite things about this ministry.
Do you see me? I’m waving my arms at you like a cheerleader! Yes and amen. Go Beth, go!
And just remember: Haters gonna hate. Do yo’ thang and watch Jesus do His!
XOXO
Haters gonna hate. Listen, Girl. I LOVE loving Jesus with the likes of you. I had so much fun seeing you in Greece.
True story: We recently moved across town into a house we are buying after 20 years of renting. This move was planned, and my organizational mind was in high gear. I kept out things I knew we would need immediately in the home including my planner.
We moved into the house, and a couple of days later I realized my brain forgot to join us. I guess it was still camping out at the old place with no power or water. Anyway, I was doing things like failing to measure before going to the hardware store, forgetting to make a list, and losing my planner – all things unlike me!
I lost several precious hours on the one Saturday I had before going back to work looking for that planner. I texted friends, I searched high and low, to no avail. That night before going to bed, God put on my husband’s heart to look one last time for the planner. He searched in a closet where we had put a few things and lo and behold – the planner was there, neatly placed in a wicker basket … on top of my Bible and prayer notebook.
I felt a wink from God as He said “See child, if you had taken the time with me each morning in this crazy whirlwind, you would have found the planner sooner and spared yourself this grief.”
I corrected myself the next day, starting having my quiet time again – and suddenly, my brain showed back up!
Lesson learned: My quiet time isn’t just about Scripture and spiritual stuff. I don’t just need it to think properly about God … I need it to even THINK properly, period.
Scripture and experience – inseparable!
Thank you for sharing that story, Rosa. I needed to hear that lesson for myself. I’m in the process of moving and have felt too out of it to spend time in the Word, and have been as scattered-brained as I’ve ever been. That was a good word – so thanks, again, for sharing!
Congratulations on your new home and may the Lord bless you and your family mightily there,
Gretchen
Amen, Beth.
Amen and amen, Beth. I love the word and I love experiencing the God of the Word when the word leaps off the page and when I experience Him in my daily life. Yes, yes, I long to fill my heart with the Word, but I also long with everything in me, to experience His Presence on a daily basis. Day is not right without experiencing His Presence and hearing Him directing my life. I agree 100% with this word of yours. Love you so much Beth.. you are always a super blessing to me..
WEGM thank you from the bottom of my heart.
hope to cya around soon.
t w o g is q p s t a 2 e s p e d a o s and s and d the t and
i of t heart.. Heb 4:12 tee hee hee…is this Greek looking?
I’ve never heard either phrase before and I’m 54 years old. Where have I been? I am elated when I know the LORD is speaking to me and guiding me. God’s Word is alive and active in me. I don’t quite understand how one can believe one without the other, but I am a simple-minded gal.
I love the story of your brushing the sweet older man’s hair. Makes me cry. God was honored in your obedience.
Yes! Beth, YES! I miss you. I love you! Thank you for putting this out there for us.
Wow. My mouth is gaping open right now. I’ve never heard of this being mutually exclusive at all. It would never have occurred to me that my personal relationship with the Lord could not include both experience and scriptural thirst and study. Beautiful words Beth! Amen
Yep! It’s that “experiential” that I so long for in my study of God’s word but it’s that same “experiential” when the Lord calls you to something you’d least expect or least desire to do that just terrifies me. (I doubt you were just itching to comb that guy’s hair! Same with me and talking in front of people- 5 people or 100 people I no likey…)
The thing is I want the experiential when it costs me very little, but when it calls me to a decision “Are you all in, or not?” Then I want to run. And I did. And I gotta say, don’t recommend it. I paid dearly for shunning the Holy Spirit when that burning sense convicted me of something he wanted me to do and I knew it and I simply refused to do so. Bad idea. I want to get back to the place of obedience no matter what. When I just acted on his leading rather than questioning it or doubting him or arguing for my way. Thanks Beth for showing you aren’t always the most thrilled by your assignments either! :))
Thank you for being bold, brave, honest and standing firm. What you have said is so true. I don’t want one without the other. I don’t want or need sensationalism. But what I do need is to know that when I pray and boldly seek after the Lord, there are and will be times when my jaw will hit the floor in utter amazement of what I have experienced.
I could write many, many pages of personal experiences that could not be explained except – God. And He has faithfully stood by me when people thought I was just plain crazy. On numerous occasions He graciously showed himself to my biggest original skeptic, my husband ;), in the same or similar ways.
The Word is alive. It is active and it is still moving among and in us.
I’ve witnessed people go to extremes on either end and it saddens me. The joy, the thrill, the peace that passes all understanding of those moments when you know, that you know, THAT YOU KNOW it was the moving of the Holy Spirit – priceless.
I am sorry that you must endure the scorn of others. I am sorry that people feel free to vent hurtful things toward you or your family.
Our family and many of my friends are ‘living proof’ of the work God has done in you and through you as we poured over Bible studies, as I learned to live out my faith by your example.
I will stop rambling now, but please don’t ever stop being the woman and mentor and example that God has called you to be to countless women around the world. You will never know how much it means to us.
With much love and prayers and thankfulness
Kim
P.S. I loved the hairbrush story!
Well said dear Beth. I have always felt the very same way since my walk with God began 34 years ago. I thank you for being one of the best teachers I have learned from. You have brought the scriptures alive for me.
Grateful
OH Beth!!
I so love you!!! I straddle that fence so much lately since I see you as a mentor as well as John MacArthur. I know one extreme to the other but it does balance out. God sees to that. The Bible teaches us ultimately through the Holy Spirit. I’ve been on fire for Jesus since 2010 when I first re committed and repented. If I couldn’t experience Him how would I know how narrow my path has to get?
We receive the word “in power” it is dynamite !!! Alive and active.
Recently questioning and doubting yesterday 2 people told me God had used me to minister to their heart about something deeply personal to them. One lady whose family had been murdered of all things it is a Bizzare story how I met her through a random opponent in a words with friends game. We struck up a conversation in a side chat room. WHERE God showed up!! I just couldn’t believe how she opened up and needed someone to listen to her. I did what God asked me to do. His fingers took over the keyboard. I haven’t met her in person yet but we are close now on the telephone and facebook. The God of the universe wants to use every possible avenue to reach His treasured possessions. If we doubt experiences then we Midas well say the Red Sea never parted. Please keep on doing your thing!!!! You’re anointed sister!!! Thank you for all your openness. It takes that to build any relationship. We all here call you friend because of that and blessed to be sissy’s in Christ Jesus!!
I know the Lord reveals Himself to me. Nobody could convince me otherwise. I just wonder why He would. It is amazing to me. I love that story of the old man. That is one of my favorites.
Amen, Beth! Amen! The Lord gets to interact with us however He sees fit and there is nothing in Scripture that I have seen that says that He does not allow us to experience His presence or provision in real, individual, and very personal ways. When I first accepted the Lord, I went to a very legalistic church where I was pounded with Scripture and rules and so little love and grace and the reality of a personal, intimate relationship with Jesus. My family thought I belonged to a cult while I wen there (and maybe I did), but it was (and is) a very well respected church in Christian circles. I am so grateful to the Lord for moving me out of there and showing me what a real relationship with Jesus is. I must seek the Lord in the Scriptures because those are His precious words to us, but He does indeed work through His Spirit in ways that still blow me away in awe of how amazing He is and how incredibly kind He is to this sin-sick woman.
Thank you for posting this! I really enjoyed reading it, and it articulates what I’ve sort of instinctively always believed. If God is the Author of Life, we can experience Him through any aspect of life. To me, reading and studying scripture, from Genesis to Revelation, supports this. Also, I’ve had too many experiences that could not have “just happened”-some profound and life-changing and others little moments I call “hugs from God.” Almost every Christian I know has stories of similar experiences. So, I agree; study scripture-and experience! While you’re at it-experience scripture:)! (I think the experience you referred to happened at the Knoxville airport, which makes me happy. That’s where I grew up-well, not at the airport.)
YES… of course. I only get leary of the only experiential people. But the Lord speaks to us and draws very near to us all the time…and that is an experience. Its a relationship. Ours claims to be the religion of relationship and relationships are built on experiences…so then one can’t rule out the other. But Beth you said it well my friend. Thank you.
Amen! I love and appreciate your ministry.
I’m am in women’s bible study at my church. We are on week 4 of Children of the Day. Studying and Experiencing Him daily as I walk thru very difficult days.
Love you Beth
Thank you Beth! You are the teacher that the Holy Spirit has used to motivate my passion for digging in the Word! I cherish the quiet moments when He speaks to me through His word..and how he sends people into my life for encouragement and will use a random tweet to minister to my deepest need..because He loves us Like crazy! The experiential and the scriptural, combined ,make this journey exciting and bearable!
I’ve never thought about them being separate. Thank God!
YES!!!AMEN!!!YES!!! I know both and cannot imagine walking out life with Jesus any other way. Thank you for your boldness Beth Moore!!
Amen
Amen and Amen!!
Amen and amen. Thank you for saying what I’ve known in my bones to be true for 17 years.
Amen! And thank you, Beth. I’ve also faced some negative reactions when I’ve shared my spiritual experiences–and not alway in traditional church OR secular settings. It hurt when my “Christian sister” rolled her eyes and hummed the tune to the “Twilight Zone.” Ugh! So thank you for sharing your spiritual experiences AND your biblical insight with us, Beth! And keep writing & “sharing” the stories that matter most! Blessings, Sista!
I have decided that I am glad I didn’t go to bible college. I have never heard of this. I don’t even understand why someone would believe that you are one or the other. I read my bible and sometimes a verse is lit up like a neon sign, and I have also experienced the Holy Spirit in a very powerful way. I too, as many others have said, was very moved by that story in the airport and I too have told others about it. It was very powerful! You are a wonderful bible teacher!!! We Christians tend to make things so difficult when it is so simple. Thank you for being you and being so real!!!!
Thank you so much for writing this. It would take too many words to write why I needed to hear this, but it touched my heart. Your words spoke freedom to me tonight. Thank you!
As I am searching for a deeper walk, you have been a blessing the last couple of years. I like that you share from the point of someone searching for more too. You don’t hide behind what you are good at; it seems not to be as important to you as knowing God deeper. Thanks for being around, you are a good encourager.
Makes me wanna go have one of those experiences in scripture right now!!!
Hallelujah! You go girl! I LOVE BOTH!
Thank you, Beth and thank you Jesus. You give me courage to be me.
Thank you for posting this. I was recently a part of a Facebook group for Christian women that I had to leave. I just couldn’t take the self-righteous bashing under the guise of “discernment ministry” anymore. You and many other Bible teachers I’ve loved and followed for years were popular targets of these women because of just what you are talking about in this post. I wrestled heavily with whether or not I had been “deceived” by the “experiential false teachers” these women pointed out, quoting specific statements and using them to highlight all the false doctrine. It shook me. But I came out of that season convinced that these women were in error, and fighting the wrong “enemy”. There was just too much truth in your teaching. I often wondered if you were aware of the attacks being levied against you by so many, and how you would respond if you did. I wrestled with how to find the balance between the scriptural and the experiential, and how to know whether or not someone was falling off on the wrong side of the fence. I think so much depends upon the denomination a person is raised in as to which of the two is prioritized. But I think the two are inseparable… MUST be inseparable. I do not think you can pursue experience exclusively. Because then you open yourself up to false spirits. But neither can you study scripture for knowledge sake alone… for it is scripture that reveals HIM. At what point does the knowledge take on life and breath? His SPIRIT inhabits His words! So…thank you. Thank you for addressing this. For letting us hear your heart on this issue. And reassuring me that my confidence in you has not been misplaced.
Melinda – I agree so much with your comment, especially the point that “…neither can you study scripture for knowledge sake alone… for it is scripture that reveals HIM.” Yes!
Blessings to you, sister
Adrienne
Thank you, Beth. Good stuff! I have heard of this, but not with those labels though. I come from a Mexican Pentacostal background so that might explain why, but as of late I have just been torn with what I believe. At times I have even wondered if any of this is even really … but then I cannot help but remember what I have experienced. He has been so gracious and merciful to allow me to experience some life changing things. Scripture is beautiful and it edifies me to no end, but without it being intertwined with what I have experienced, I can almost assure you I don’t know where I would be right now. Thank you for being so faithful, not only to Him but to us (your students) as well. Love you much and if in your quiet time you just happened to remember this comment, please utter a small prayer on my behalf. I sure would covet even the small gesture. Somehow, I think He sits up on the edge of His throne and listens intently when you enter His room.
This is right Beth! And God wants us to experience him just as you have so eloquently put it. It’s been on my heart. That he wants all of us to experience him. He’s jealous for that. I do thank you so very much for putting it into words tho. I’m not sure I would have realized this without doing a whole pile of Bible study with you. But it is there in scripture from Genesis to revelation that he wants us to EXPERIENCE him thisnis we go deeper and deeper into his word.
Amen!
Heidi
I couldn’t agree more!! That’s what I love about you, your ministry and this precious community…nothing more precious than the written Word except the Living Word alive in our hearts and lives! Don’t ever stop, dear siesta mama!
So true…
What I find interesting is that the story of you in the airport is probably the most quoted Beth Moore story I know of…one of our family pastors quoted it this summer to the children’s camp as an example of obedience, hearing God’s voice and obeying.
I have often quoted it myself…whether in teaching or family devotional…an amazing testimony I’m so glad you told…even if it cost you much.
Thanks for obeying Jesus and teaching and exemplifying it for many to see.
Blessings,
Corrie Bell
Dear Beth,
I still remember fondly you talking about Buddy Waters in the Living Beyond Yourself study and how God was so faithful to strike a fire in your heart that you saw in Buddy. I’m so glad that fire still burns so strong and brightly! How many of us, including myself have warmed ourselves and caught the fire and the passion for Christ that you have poured into us out of a heart that overflows with the love of God. Thank you Beth. I love the scriptural and the experiential! I wouldn’t trade one for the other. Preach it sister! We sure love you!
P.S I wrote a few times on this blog about worrying that I was going to lose everything and requested prayer for that situation. I want to say Thank you if you prayed for me, everything is turning out fine. I’m not losing anything, and the people I have had to deal with could not have been kinder. God is good! Very good indeed!
Praise God, Sister! He is so faithful!
I loved this so much. THANK YOU!! I have a pastor/teacher who I could truly describe VERY similarly to the teacher you mentioned. I love him with ALL my heart. He LOVES God’s Word more than anything in all the world. And He’s lit such a fire in me too that I can’t fully describe. And he might say something similar as well. Thank you for always giving permission to be real and honest. I don’t know if those are exactly the right words for this. For example: you’ve helped me see that its ok to be in ministry and have a past (with serious bondage), to be in ministry and have a less “spiritual” husband. To know that when you are working on a ministry project, mid-way its normal to feel like it doesn’t matter. And now to speak about how God uses experience to teach His word and truth. Yes. He taught me about a passage just last week through an experience. And this very day, He taught me something else in a similar way. Thank you for being so brave! I overflow with Christ’s affection and gratitude for you!!
I can’t imagine it being any other way! Amen!!!!!
Thank you for being courageous and vulnerable enough to share. Thanks for standing strong in the power of Christ and continuing to walk through the criticism and discouragement. I personally have experienced both experience and study of the Lord. And Lord willing, with my call to encourage people to experience the love of Jesus through Scriptures, I will continue proclaiming it as long as He wills. Thank you again for the post.
Blessings on you and your ministry! Yes, I know when Holy Spirit speaks directly inside me, urging me to do something that is outside my comfort zone. I know what it is to open His Word and have Him breathe it directly into my soul. I feel blessed that I have never felt I had to separate the two. I know when His Word gives me direct confirmation or direction. And I know when His Holy Spirit tells me or leads me to be the Hands and Feet of Jesus on this earth. I have loved the hair brush story for years! Bless you!
Oh, and one more thing! My daughter is NOT a hugger. Personal space all around her–about 3 feet! When you recently held a Living Proof Ministry Conference in Tulsa, OK, we got to meet with you briefly as Siesta Challenge Sisters–we never made it to Houston. But my daughter, all 29 years of personal space, came up to you and said, “May I hug you?” You graciously agreed. That might not have seemed like much to you–but to my closed off gal of personal space, it was a ministry of Holy Spirit in you! 🙂 Blessings again! You never know when you are the Arms of Jesus!
I always consider it a privilege to get permission to hug a non-hugger. Smile. God bless you both.
I’ll let her know 🙂 Maybe she’s actually growing as a comfortable woman of Christ. Maybe she just recognized you as someone who has made a difference in a hunger for the Word in her life. All in all, I love both theories 🙂
WHOA. This is one of those “Timing couldn’t be more perfect” posts.
I was always an oober judgmental person with “experiential” people…..Until the last 6 months with Elijah Rising and Bayou City. My world has shattered and I am behind all you just said 150%. People just won’t understand sometimes. That’s too bad. (For THEM!)
BTW….the hairbrush story is my very favorite:)