Greetings, Siestas!
I am cold.
How are you?
I will have you know that Houstonians have been notified that we have a 70% chance of snow flurries over the next twenty four hours. We are all nestled at home by the fire, awaiting the likes of the Chicago blizzard. The doors of schools and workplaces have been locked and abandoned. Food stuffs have long since been purchased. Shelves are practically empty. In short, we are all certifiably insane.
In other news, on Tuesday night at Bible Study my Mom read out of Philippians 1.19:
For I know that this shall turn out for my deliverance through your prayers and the provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ (NASB)
Every time I hear this verse, a bell starts ringing in my head and it drives me crazy because I can never identify it. But, at last, the other night I finally discovered that the echo is coming from Job 13.16. We can see that the phrase “this shall turn out for my deliverance” in Philippians 1.19 (τοῦτό μοι ἀποβήσεται εἰς σωτηρίαν) finds a word for word correspondence in the Greek version of Job 13.16:
Indeed, this will turn out for my deliverance, for no godless man would dare come before him! (NIV)
For those interested, you can see the correspondence in the Greek below:
Philippians 1.19 οἶδα γὰρ ὅτι τοῦτό μοι ἀποβήσεται εἰς σωτηρίαν διὰ τῆς ὑμῶν δεήσεως καὶ ἐπιχορηγίας τοῦ πνεύματος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ
Job 13.16 καὶ τοῦτό μοι ἀποβήσεται εἰς σωτηρίαν οὐ γὰρ ἐναντίον αὐτοῦ δόλος εἰσελεύσεται.
The Greek versions of the Hebrew Bible are known collectively as the Septuagint (commonly abbreviated LXX). The LXX is overwhelmingly the Bible that Paul uses in his letters. What is fascinating about this instance in Philippians 1.19 is that Paul does not use any introductory formula (for example, something like, “the Scripture says”) to introduce his allusion or echo of Job 13.16. This discussion is a conversation in intertextuality. Intertextuality, in simplest terms, is the relationship between texts. So what I am getting at with this particular discussion is, how is Paul using Job 13.16 in Philippians 1.19? If that question does not make sense, think of it this way: what is the relationship between Philippians 1.19 and Job 13.16?
There are several explanations as to what may be going on but here are just a couple of general options:
1) In spite of the verbatim verbal correspondence, Paul has not consciously invoked Job 13.16. It is sheer coincidence and no implications should be drawn about the relationship between these two texts.
2) Paul has uttered the words “this will turn out for my deliverance” in passing, without too much thought. It is noteworthy that we do this all the time, not because we are trying to invoke entire contexts of biblical passages, but because of our familiarization with a certain verse. For example, when we have a friend who has suffered a loss, we might say, “All things work for the good of those who love him” without even realizing we just quoted half of Romans 8.28. Our intention was not to point our friend to the entirety of Romans 8 but simply to quickly apply a very familiar verse to a new and relevant situation.
3) In Philippians 1.19, Paul has intentionally echoed the language and context of Job 13.16 because he is identifying himself and his circumstances with Job, the paradigmatic righteous sufferer who, in his suffering and affliction, hoped in God for ultimate vindication and redemption.
Discussions of intertextuality, like this one, can be quite fascinating and complex since the line between option two and option three is often difficult to discern. If you wish to do so, take a look at the pertinent verses and let me know what you think. First, look at Philippians 1.19 and its surrounding context. Second, check out Job 13.16 (read all of Job 13 if you really want to make the most of the discussion). Finally, go back to Philippians 1.19 and try to discern the nature of the relationship between the two texts.
As a side note, today I forgot my Bible, so I am using one of my Mom’s old ones and it is dated to approximately 1990. The marginal notes are full of stars, exclamation marks, and observations in curly little cursive handwriting and it is making me so happy.
Have a great evening, dear ladies. Whatever you do, do not make your way to Houston; Chicago, Antarctica, the North Pole, anywhere would be safer than Houston.
Love,
Melis
Psalm139:1-6
O Lord you have searched me and you know me. You know when I sit andvwhen I rise. You perceivv mtly thoughts from afar. You discern my going out and my lying down. You are familiar with my ways before a word is on my tongue you know it completely. O Lord you hem me in behind and before you have laid in you hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me, too lofty for me to attain.
Ooooh Melissa … I love this. I’d have to go with #3, too. Anytime someone has suffered greatly, you draw from those who have gone before you … you cling to their words (God’s Words). They are life; deliverance. I always think of what your Mom said about “going full circle” … the thing you thought would kill you turns out to be the very thing God uses to deliver you. And you can trust that those circumstances are intentional, not accidental. Just as I imagine those words were intentional. (God-intended for certain) I love learning from you … please keep them coming! Oh, and we were home-bound all this last week in Fort Worth. But the snow was beautiful.
Melissa,
I wish I were a deep thinker and well read/studied like yourself. I sadly admit this is over my head. I’m okay with it though. Jesus died for my shallowness along with dying for our sins. I guess I’m too shallow to decide if shallowness is a sin. I read somewhere once that even the ocean is shallow at its shore line along with its deepest depth. I’m happy as a peacock in the sunshine to study under you and your Mother. We fit like pecans and a pie. I’m the pecans(top)and your the pie(deep dish), I must be hungry..imagine that. We women understand food analogy. Anyway…sorry for rambling..I just want you to know that I was elected to represent the masses(just kiddin) and we love you and your wisdom. Keep it up siesta, we need to always think deeper about our Lord and Savior.
In Him Always,
Vickie
Okay.. Am I in trouble “again”? Another “again”! This post is meant in a positive way. I absolutely adore Melissa. The wisdom she imparts is truly amazing. I was just owning my weakness in depth. I don’t know what else to say except, I am truly sorry again, please forgive me,again. From now on, I will just post on the memory verse page. By the way, Praise be to Jesus, he is writing scripture on my heart for keeps. Hope you all have a blessed day.
From the end of the earth will I call unto thee, when my heart is overwhelmed:lead me to the rock that is higher than I. Psalms 61:2 ERV
Hi Melis,
Just wanted to say a few things ~
εγω ειμι κημ σαφινα!!!!!!
Psalms 46:10
“σχολάσατε καὶ γνῶτε ὅτι ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ θεός ὑψωθήσομαι ἐν τοῖς ἔθνεσιν ὑψωθήσομαι ἐν τῇ γῇ”
🙂
Psalms 127:1-2 Amplified
“Except the Lord builds the house, they labor in vain who build it; except the Lord keeps the city, the watchman wakes up in vain. It is vain for you to rise up early, to take rest late, to eat the bread of [anxious] toil – – for he gives [blessings] to His beloved in sleep.”
Oh, Melissa, thank you, AGAIN, for encouraging all of us to delve deeper into the WORD. You have a gift for communicating, and we all benefit from your cultivation of it!
I LOVE how the Lord weaves such things as this through His Word…and that the Holy Spirit works to prompt you, all these centuries later, to hear the echoes of Job’s words in Paul’s words, to prompt and prod you until you figure out the connection.
And what that connection is precisely…? We can certainly know that in God’s Inspiration it IS precise, regardless of what we do or do not know about Paul’s conscious intentions.
I would posit that Paul IS consciously invoking Job’s words; and in that sometimes wry manner of the Apostle, he is citing Job to actually amplify Job’s claim. For while Job had faith for a KIND of deliverance (and, indeed, the Book of Job ends with an account of that deliverance), Paul knew of and had faith for a more extraordinary and utter deliverance: eternal communion with God through the saving work of Jesus Christ!!
So Paul, who exults in the superlative, can at once make reference to the hope of the paradigmatic sufferer of the Old Testament, AND proclaim his confidence in the ultimate deliverance–to depart and be with Christ!
#3- God is always intentional. :o)
Dear Melissa
What a gift God has given. Your immense hunger and thirst for the Word surely has brought you to a level of deeper understanding than us, and it challenges our minds and hearts.
As I read the passages, what I believe is that Paul utters the words from Job, surely from a familiarity with the Greek text, but with one great difference. I don’t see it as a mere echo, but as an utterance from the heart of Paul, who can now testify, through his own test of faith, to the Power of God that is at work in his suffering.
“For I know,” said Paul.
I KNOW; these are the confident words of one who is now LIVING the promises of God spoken by Job, and who, together with the prayers of the people and the gift of the Holy Spirit, is testifying to his knowledge that God is using his imprisonment for his deliverance. In other words, his heart now knows what his head already knew.
“Though he slay me, yet will I hope in him” (Job 13:15)
Thank you for the challenge. We love you and pray blessings down upon your life and work.
Margie
Hilton Head Island, SC
Oh Margie, I could not have said this better!! Thank you, I have been searching for a way to put this the way I understood it but I didnt want to sound like a repeat of every other comment that agreed with my point of view. You did so beautifully. Thanks and thank you Melissa for this wonderful post – I love being challenged to dig deeper in His Word. Keep it up!
Thanks for a challenging post, Melis. I’m not sure if my opinion falls on #2 or #3. The Holy Spirit is nothing if not purposeful, so I’m sure from His perspective the intertextuality was completely intentional! From Paul’s perspective, did he quote Job on purpose? I don’t know, but I spose I would lean toward a yes. I’m jealous for a mind so saturated in God’s Word that it just leaks out, consciously or not!
Applicationally speaking (is that even a word?), what struck me about the two surrounding passages, was the importance of the Lord’s presence. To both Job and Paul, it seems their primary concern is to not be cut off from God’s presence. I need the reminder that God’s presence is my salvation, no matter what my circumstances!
Love to you all!
Betty…Missouri
“Yet this I call to mind and therefore I have hope. Becaue of the Lord’s great love we are not consumed, for his compassions never fail, they are new every morning.. great is your faithfulness. I will say to myself, the Lord is my portion, therefore I will wait for him.”
Lamentations 3:21-24
So sorry that this is so late…with the blizzard last week, working and preparing for the medical mission trip to El Salvador I will be leaving for on Friday….I simply did not get this posted. Yet I have been working on the verses. It has been my motto through the chaos. I will wave to you all at LPM as I fly into and out of Houston Friday morning. Please lift our team up in prayer if you think about it next week, that the people of El Salvador will see Christ’s love and compassion in our service to them. What a priviledge!!!
I am not far away in Austin, so I have been colder than any Texan should ever have to be. I mean really, 19 during the day? Come on! It seems warmer weather might be here for a bit, but I saw 20’s at night later this week. For the Alaskans, Chicagoans, and other cold weather peeps, do not laugh, there is a reason we do not live where you live! COLD!
As for the text, I as well, am somewhere between 2 and 3. I find that as I grow closer to the Lord, seeing and therefore, thinking or saying His word comes out in everything. It is literally a part of me. I cannot separate it. Thankfully! I compare my excuses and disobedience to Moses. My focus on the wrong things to Martha. My desire to love God and still mess up bad to David.
But I also believe nothing in the Bible is random. Every single word is inspired by God and has a purpose.
So….. As for the comparisons between the two texts I can see what others have commented, as far as the circumstances being similar and other people causing the grief. But, I also see a striking difference in tone. Paul understood the reason for his suffering, he knew there was a purpose and he rejoiced. I don’t think Job was doing much rejoicing. But, he trusted God and that is the main similarity. They both trusted in their affliction. Even when they could not see how it would work out. They trusted and that is the point. Maybe Paul felt if Job was delivered when he has not been with Christ, or filled with the Spirit of Christ, how much more could he have the assurance that “what has happened to me will turn out for my deliverance.”
Thanks for prompting the thought!
I love it Melissa! This is suuuch rich teaching!! I am here taking notes like I was in class!! Wonderful!
I love the thought of Paul reaching back and grabbing scripture and it then becoming scripture! It all goes back to the Word… Capitol W, my Jesus. I am in a season right now that would have destroyed me but for the Word… He’s all I see right now and all I can really believe! I love Him so much, and all of you, thank you for sharing (and for all those hours you spent studying so we could reap the rewards!).
Okay, I have to confess, that when I saw the title to this blog I immediately assumed that “intertexuality” was going to have something to do with cell phone texting.
Thank you Melissa for such an enlightening lesson. =D
I read this post Friday night after a day of fasting and praying for friends in ministry and some difficult situations in our church. The verses brought tears to my eyes and wonderful assurances of God’s continuing working and speaking in the midst of everything. So I am delayed in responding and still can’t really explain all that’s going through my heart and mind, but I wanted to say THANK YOU!
Melissa, If I am not mistaken much of what is said by our Lord Jesus Christ comes from Deuteronomy. I find it facinating and faith building to see that this Word is so alive and relevant and intricated connected to itself. Shalom.
Hi!
I love this post! I don’t have anything insightful to offer, but I love how living and active the Word of God is, and this post just goes to show that there’s always more to learn and consider. Thank you for spurring on my mind to really think about God’s Word!
And what a wonderful verse to use! It’s been running through my mind ever since I read it for the first time a few days ago.
Sweet Melissa,
I love your mind! Thank you for loving God’s Word, and studying it the way you do. I’m edified by it! Hope you’re doing well!
Cherie(Bradshaw)Wagner
Melissa
Hey girl. So good to have you putting challenges out there to us. I love this kind of thinking thing. I want to be free from feeling like I have to have the right answer and therefore making me go to commentaries and such for a response. So God and I sat thinking and talking about Paul and Job. Go easy on me. No theology classes here just life and the holy spirit.
I think Paul had plenty of time to think, pray and ponder about all sorts of things while he was in prison. Most of the scriptures he did commit to memory and he is definitely a thinker, smart, intelligent. I don’t believe he thought or said this by accident. He could relate to Job and he learned from Job.
They both come to a place of deep suffering. Job struggled with the WHY, only to find that it would never be answered here on this earth. Paul rejoiced in the WHY NOT! Both can be worked out for our deliverance but I believe Paul’s way to be the better way.
Life is hard.
Unanswered prayers, losses, bad decisions, suffering….WHY or WHY NOT?
We choose.
Theresa
Micah 6:8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly[a] with your God.
You are such a smarty pants I thought we were going to be talking about cell phones!!!!!!! 🙂
“As a side note, today I forgot my Bible, so I am using one of my Mom’s old ones and it is dated to approximately 1990.”
I misread the last part and thought it said, “…and is dated to approximately 1900.”
I believe that Paul most likely used the phrase from Job with intentionality. Although Job’s and Paul’s circumstances were radically different (Job had lost everything, except for his pest of a wife, and was experiencing suffering to the point of painful boils on his body – and Paul was imprisoned for his faithful preaching of the gospel), the testimony of both Paul and Job is that they both believed in God’s justice. Job believed that he would be vindicated by his faithfulness, and Paul that whether it be in chains or free, in life or in death, no matter what circumstances may befall him, that God would be glorified through his suffering. Paul’s use of the OT verse was perhaps not necessarily because he was in despair over his situation, as was Job, but in order to encourage the Philippians that God will vindicate his people (Paul was writing a letter to the Philippian church, encouraging them to hold on to their faith despite opposition). God is a just God and is worthy of our faith and hope, even our suffering – if it be his purpose in us to the praise of his glory. It’s really quite a radical call to us as believers, because we will all suffer, but we can follow Paul’s (and Job’s) example and trust in the God of all justice and righteousness, knowing that our faith will be vindicated.
Pardon the soapbox… (and know that I’m talking to myself as well)
It dawned on me not too long ago that the enemy wants to convince us that we are worthy of the suffering we experience, as if our sins deserve it. That’s not to say that sometimes God doesn’t allow things for our refinement, etc. But more often than we realize, I believe God desires that we would have faith in his justice. That no matter what happens he has our back and desires that we would walk in confidence before him. My husband and I have been through a trying time and he used to say, “I don’t think I deserve this. I’m following God with all my heart.” And I used to look at him, and myself, and think “Yeah, yeah, BUT we do this and this and this, and look where we’ve failed here…” I was looking for perfection, rather than relying on the grace that is ours in Christ. If we are believers, then God has our back. We can trust him. The enemy wants to tell us that we are weak, that we aren’t smart enough to know his word (like I read some comments on the blog), that we deserve punishment and shame, but God says to us, “Look at what Jesus has done for you. Walk in confidence before me.”
We have the Holy Spirit who lives in us. Seminary training is not the answer to knowing God’s word; it is the Holy Spirit. I think sometimes people use their lack of intelligence to know God’s word as an excuse. If the Holy Spirit lives in you, you have no excuse. Lean on him. He will lead you into all truth. It saddens me to see women believe the lie that somehow we aren’t smart enough to know God’s word deeply – that self-sabotage is just another form of pride. Don’t look at Beth Moore or Melissa or anyone else and think somehow they are endowed with special access into Truth that you don’t have – No, they have the same Holy Spirit you do. Each of us has the power of the Holy Spirit to know God through his word! Lean on him and walk in confidence.
And here’s one last thing. I think sometimes we are too afraid to study God’s word because we aren’t sure we’re going to get everything 100% right. Here’s the deal. No one gets it 100% right 100% of the time. Just take a look at church history/theology and you can see how it takes years upon years for people to come to a more accurate understanding of the Bible. But that doesn’t mean that the effort is pointless, because God is watchful over his word to perform it. He will use your attempt to know him through his word to bear fruit and bring him glory – just trust him.
Oh woman, you lost me at that big word in the title…intertext…wha??? Let me go find my dictionary. “Kids! Where’s the dictionary?!”
Love you Melissa, and so glad you brought your sweet, gifted, oversized brain to share. I adore you!
Melissa – Enjoyed your comments immensely!! Very thought provoking as well as enlightning. Looking forward to spending some time with these verses too!
Hey Melissa,
I decided to do your assignment. I’ve been told that anytime any phrase is repeated in scripture, that it is significant somehow. I’m personally leaning towards options two and three out of the three you listed. I think that since Paul was a zealous devout Jew according to Jewish customs before his conversion, he must have been really well versed in the parts of what we now call the Old Testament that he had access to. Those scriptures in Phil.(Phil. 1:18-21) reminded me of other sections of scripture that Paul wrote in 2 Cor. 1:3-12 and 1 Thess. 5:16-28. I think that he did in some way identify with Job’s desire to be vindicated or delivered. Paul’s and Job’s hopes were in God alone. Also, key words in these passages that stuck out to me were “pray”, “prayer”, “prayers”, “grace”, “Spirit”, and “hope”. I’m not sure if the same Greek words were used in those NT passages for pray, prayer, grace…etc. but it seems interesting to me in the english translation at least of the Greek that Paul would couple his deliverance with the prayers of the saints in Phil., 2 Cor., and in that passage in 1 Thess. where Paul confesses that Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass, and right after that says, “Brethren, pray for us.” Job’s declaration of hope in God and expected vindication could have, maybe have been in Paul’s mind when he was inspired to write that section of Phil. and those other sections of scripture?? It’s plausible, but I can’t be dogmatic myself about it because 1)I’m no formal Bible scholar, 2)Paul doesn’t outright say his mind was on Job when he penned those scriptures in Philippians. It is something to think about though. Thanks for your lesson on intertextuality Melissa, your assignments and musings always get me to thinking:)
Blessings to you
I’ll gear this review to 2 types of people: current Zune owners who are considering an upgrade, and people trying to decide between a Zune and an iPod. (There are other players worth considering out there, like the Sony Walkman X, but I hope this gives you enough info to make an informed decision of the Zune vs players other than the iPod line as well.)
Helpful website, keep me personally through searching it, I am seriously interested to find out another recommendation of it.
Blessings! I always know when it’s a “Melissa” post from the title and it is always amazing: )Thanks for sharing knowledge that I will never know unless you share it!
nice post and very informative. definitely worth bookmarking
I have been meaning to post about sth like this on one of my sites and this gave me an idea. TY.
I was reading this morning with one of my children about Paul’s conversion experience and Ananias’ concern in going to Paul. God answers this concern and ends it with the statement of how God would show Paul how much he would have to suffer for His name. This supports your number 3.
Aside that someone wouldn’t (especially Paul with his personality) say something so that is so strongly put and do so by coincidence or flippantly… maybe I’m assuming too much.:) However, Paul was a very intentional person even before his conversion. Everything he did he went after with gusto, purpose and fury. I bet all that he’d been through he could really relate to Job and he always tried to shore up those who suffered as well.
My attraction to these verses had to do with more of my own personal suffering. But when I look at all our Bible counterparts went through in the early church days… and go through today (outside of the USA) I think my suffering is small yet in the Word there is encouragement for all.
Ephesians 3:19 New American Standard
and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.
Barb, Lakewood CO Isaiah 55:12 (NKJV)
You shall go out with joy and be led out with peace; the mountains and the hills shall break forth into singing before you, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.
Hebrews 12:1-3 (NIV)
Therefore since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us . Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, scorning its shame,and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider Him who endured such opposition from sinful men , so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
Psalm 65:5 NLT You faithfully answer our prayers with awesome deeds, O God our savior. You are the hope of everyone on earth even those who sail on distant seas.
For by him all things were created in heaven and on earth visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities–all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things and in him all things hold together. Col. 1:16-17 ESV
Trust in th LORD with all thine heart and do not lean on your own understandiing in all your ways acknowledge him, ad he will make your paths straight5(I)Trust in the LORD with all your heart KJV PROVERBS 3: 5-6 Ginny SOUTH POINT OHIOO
Psalm 4:1 NIV
“Answer me when I call you,
Oh my righteous God,
Give me relief from my distress,
Be merciful to me and hear my prayer.”
Psalm 16:5
My choice is You, God, first and only. And now I find I’m Your choice.
~Message
Erin, Arab, AL.
I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death.
Philippians 1:20
Becca, Hoyleton
“And you were dead in your trespasses and sins”
Ephesians 2:1 ESV
I know that verse is really short, but I’m going to work on memorizing the 2nd chapter of Ephesians over the the next sum of weeks.
Mathew 5:14 You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden.
Isaiah 48:7
This is what the Lord says, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel;I am the Lord Your God, who teaches you what is best for you, who directs you in the way you should go.
NIV
Lindsay Daugherty
Kokomo, IN
“I have no greater joy than to hear that my children are living by the truth.
3John 1:4 NIV
Lisa, Granville, Ohio
This is what the Lord says–your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: I am the Lord your God, who teaches you what is best for you, who directs you in the way you should go.
Isaiah 48:17 NIV
Melissa, Atlanta
{Therefore I tell you,} whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him , so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.
Mark 11: 24 – 24, NIV
Teresa from Benton, Arkansas
“Be joyful always; pray continually; give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.”
I Thessalonians 5:16-18 NIV
Oh how I enjoy reading your comments… To God be the glory… mar 15 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.. matthew 28:19-20